HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: 60Gunner on March 28, 2023, 07:54:41 AM

Quote from: Tail Ridr on March 26, 2023, 04:26:33 AM

Quote from: jsachs1 on March 18, 2023, 02:01:15 PMTTS 150 would be my choice.
John

In this build the tts-150 hits the average, and by most recommendations of not running the tts-150 over 10.3:1, what would the ccp end up being in a build like this?

 

117" HD kit with tts 150 cams,  10.3, 203-205 CCP I'm gonna say intake close 33*

I think some of mine is left on the table due to timing map, but it does run pretty good.
118 hp 135 tq I can't even get a MAP from the proprietor of TTS which it's tuned with too. The database would be a good spot for one. 

It's just HOT!    I got every cooling device I care to fit on there, and that makes me hott.

Quote from: TN on April 20, 2023, 01:34:59 PMI think some of mine is left on the table due to timing map,


It's just HOT!    I got every cooling device I care to fit on there, and that makes me hott.

Looks like you have two indications of timing not tuned correctly for the build.

Quote from: TN on April 20, 2023, 01:34:59 PMI can't even get a MAP from the proprietor of TTS which it's tuned with too.

Was a blue or a CanBus VCI used?  If so.  The calibration that is in your ecm is also in the VCI.  It can be downloaded from VCI.

Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 20, 2023, 02:57:38 PM

Quote from: TN on April 20, 2023, 01:34:59 PMI think some of mine is left on the table due to timing map,


It's just HOT!    I got every cooling device I care to fit on there, and that makes me hott.

Looks like you have two indications of timing not tuned correctly for the build.

Quote from: TN on April 20, 2023, 01:34:59 PMI can't even get a MAP from the proprietor of TTS which it's tuned with too.

Was a blue or a CanBus VCI used?  If so.  The calibration that is in your ecm is also in the VCI.  It can be downloaded from VCI.

First of all I'm a part changer, I do understand the basics of TTS software, I use the black interface and had it on a dyno once, sorry that's twice. It runs good, smooth and has all the power I could ask for, around 40 miles per gallon and no spark knock shows up.30K on the build.

I've run some vtunes lately because I'm trying some 2" baffles, haven't used the timing feature with vtune3. yet.

Using data master riding around local 45 minutes, on a 70* day I can keep the head temps @ 315 or below using headfans, jagg cooler fan assisted also. Without fans temp goes north of 350*. On a real hot day it blows plenty of hot air to the right side, I've been sucking it up for a few years. It's a great cool weather bike but I live in the swampy south.

Should I try the timing feature on vtune?. Adjusting the pushrods the back cylinder lines up with the dots on the sprockets, the front cylinder cam base circle is not where I thought it'd be in relation to the sprocket dots. That's always stood out in my mind. 


Sorry about whining about no TTS-150 cam tune in the TTS data base.   

Quote from: TN on April 20, 2023, 07:29:15 PMSorry about whining about no TTS-150 cam tune in the TTS data base.   

I am suggesting that your timing is retarded for the build.  Putting heat into the engine and leaving power on the table.

EAE600 looks like a cal for a TTS 150.  Just trying to help.

I do appreciate the help as I'm trying to learn.

Here is my current tune I'm running and I have compared the timing tables to EAE600, which there is a difference. My bike is a 2009, 117" HD kit, 58mm SE throttle body 5.3 injectors TTS 150 cams, fullsac dx pipe with 2"fullsac cores. My AFR map was all open loop from the tuner I jut changed a small block to closed loop in cruise light load area, played with some AFR in high load of map too for a lil ping.

Comparing tunes, one AFR the other lambda have slightly different info , rows and column mainly.

What would be the best for me moving forward, increase my timing table a few degrees and use vtune timing function in my current tune, try to copy and paste accordingly then use vtune. I know changing the timing will reflect on the VE's too. Yes??

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I can have some crow with my whine about the TTS database. 

I'm not against visiting a pro tuner, I live in the Savannah GA area and tuners are few and far between here. But something has got to give.

Quote from: TN on April 21, 2023, 06:44:24 AMI do appreciate the help as I'm trying to learn.

Here is my current tune I'm running and I have compared the timing tables to EAE600, which there is a difference. My bike is a 2009, 117" HD kit, 58mm SE throttle body 5.3 injectors TTS 150 cams, fullsac dx pipe with 2"fullsac cores. My AFR map was all open loop from the tuner I jut changed a small block to closed loop in cruise light load area, played with some AFR in high load of map too for a lil ping.

Comparing tunes, one AFR the other lambda have slightly different info , rows and column mainly.

What would be the best for me moving forward, increase my timing table a few degrees and use vtune timing function in my current tune, try to copy and paste accordingly then use vtune. I know changing the timing will reflect on the VE's too. Yes??

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I can have some crow with my whine about the TTS database. 

I'm not against visiting a pro tuner, I live in the Savannah GA area and tuners are few and far between here. But something has got to give.

You might give Steve at Fullsac a call since you have some of his products.
He may have a map from one of his dyno sessions with what you have.

I followed his advice on my 124 build for parts and had a pro tuner do my tuning.
No heat issues (Southwest part of the country) and the bike performs just as I had hoped.

Granted, not the same build as yours but I have had other bikes with different builds all using TTS as my VCI and a good tuner.
Georgia may get hot, but our desert gets pretty warm also! LOL

Good luck

I suggest a pro tune.

Comparing the calibrations.  The WOT timing is about the same, but what I assume your cruise area to be.  The 600 cal has more timing in that area. 

Quote from: HogMike on April 21, 2023, 08:23:47 AM

Quote from: TN on April 21, 2023, 06:44:24 AMI do appreciate the help as I'm trying to learn.

Here is my current tune I'm running and I have compared the timing tables to EAE600, which there is a difference. My bike is a 2009, 117" HD kit, 58mm SE throttle body 5.3 injectors TTS 150 cams, fullsac dx pipe with 2"fullsac cores. My AFR map was all open loop from the tuner I jut changed a small block to closed loop in cruise light load area, played with some AFR in high load of map too for a lil ping.

Comparing tunes, one AFR the other lambda have slightly different info , rows and column mainly.

What would be the best for me moving forward, increase my timing table a few degrees and use vtune timing function in my current tune, try to copy and paste accordingly then use vtune. I know changing the timing will reflect on the VE's too. Yes??

You cannot view this attachment.



I can have some crow with my whine about the TTS database. 

I'm not against visiting a pro tuner, I live in the Savannah GA area and tuners are few and far between here. But something has got to give.

You might give Steve at Fullsac a call since you have some of his products.
He may have a map from one of his dyno sessions with what you have.

I followed his advice on my 124 build for parts and had a pro tuner do my tuning.
No heat issues (Southwest part of the country) and the bike performs just as I had hoped.

Granted, not the same build as yours but I have had other bikes with different builds all using TTS as my VCI and a good tuner.
Georgia may get hot, but our desert gets pretty warm also! LOL

Good luck

I tried that route. I think that's where my timing tables are from then.......nevermind. It's a learning process.

Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 21, 2023, 09:28:26 AMI suggest a pro tune.

Comparing the calibrations.  The WOT timing is about the same, but what I assume your cruise area to be.  The 600 cal has more timing in that area. 

Roger that, will do.  You cannot view this attachment.

Two data runs are done at around 50*, just enough to get up to full operating temp, it's good in cool weather.

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No one would take the bait,    I found the problem, all systems go.
The bad running data ain't pretty. I am learning. 

Was it your timing at 40kpa and in sixth gear?

Not sure where to start but I am a DIY'er, while I'm only a parts changer I got potential.     Swapped out my mufflers from 2.25 to 2" recently just cause I had them. Ran a few vtunes and decided to data log some.

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Got kinda frustrated, no audible ping, tried tuning knock out, LOL, bike seemed okay. I had changed spark plugs and spark plug cables, put an ohm meter on cables and passed that test. Just wanting to do something I put the old rear spark plug cable back on, well I'll be dammed, the cable did the trick on the knock part.

To address the heat my plan of attack is to work with vtune3 on timing tables, take the closed loop portion out of the equation, place some values in the low 14's in very light cruise conditions. Then ride the piss out of it.

My ADHBD got to me on a few post so my apologies, I'm off my meds. 

Main thing is I'm back on track, maybe...................My grinder pump went out at 10 pm last nite so first things first. It's always something.

My data log file from the future only makes sense to me and my organization of such files. 

Quote from: Ohio HD on April 23, 2023, 07:41:43 PMWas it your timing at 40kpa and in sixth gear?

Around 35-38 at 2200 or so rpm's.  Much more steady state data at 50 kpa 38-41 at around 3000.

I did make progress, will make it short. Data shows a ride to check out different cruising speeds AFR from high 60's to 90,a little backroad too. The cruise is where the heat builds which in hand the faster equals mo-heat.

I need to upgrade my tuning hardware, my black interface for the TTS with the adapter will only work with my 20 year old laptop which has seen it's better day. I have a newer one with windows 10 but it just won't recognize it, I've gone thru the suggested steps per mastertune site.

I have read up on the acell table and understand the purpose but how do you determine the proper value in the proper row?

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Maybe it's just me but engine temps in the your files look in line with, or cooler than data I've looked at for different bikes where I've used flight recorder.    Also just noticed your DE table is zeroed out?