Man this bike is a wreck! I just pulled off the right side cover and the gears came out with a bunch of metal filings,need to know how too line hash marks back up,anyone got a pic
Neilc, the guys here (me too) will want to know model, year, etc., etc..
Hang in, help is on the way after you give requested info..
70xclh...saw it in your other post.
Would be an XLCH
1970xlch 1000,
Where did the metal come from?
Buggered or exploded lifter?
Cam shims? (moco TSB says you don't need them)
What year?
Quote from: Burnout on August 11, 2016, 06:00:32 AM
Where did the metal come from?
Buggered or exploded lifter?
Cam shims? (moco TSB says you don't need them)
What year?
I know that the TSB simply Omits the shims...but, What they are "telling" us is that they were being set-up way too tight...[seen plenty] I use shims...especially on #2...
Someone needs at minimum a FSM!
Simple as Pie really...If ya do a bit of Research.
(http://home.sandiego.edu/~ekim/harley/tstorm/IMAGE010bo.jpg)
I quit using the shims long ago. Never had a problem.
-JW
did you first remove points and advance unit?
they bolted to a cam.
I would not be so quick to reinstall and align till metal source is found and corrected.
also get a factory manual.
the others are lacking.
:agree: make sure you flush that system good, my Stator blew (magnets) in my 93 and got metal thought the primary and tranny :emsad:
Ya metal was from disintegrated shims behind gears,all cleaned out now,gears back in and timed except first gear has no timing mark on it just a hand painted dot that goes to starter motor,also left inside shims out this time should I leave both outer and inside shims out
Pic of gears back in
Just about any time you pull the cam cover off a ironhead the cams are going with the cover! .......... so this is pretty normal!
Those shims seem to always tare apart ..... using shims is not a bad idea but when there say .010" thick like most ironheads have there just going to fail! ..........
I will not use a thin shim on a cam! .......... your just asking for problems! ........ I often just run without them unless I can get a thick shim that will hold up! so check end play and see how far off you are! and go from there :up:
You better pull the oil pump off and check that out ......... very likely there is metal in that pump! fixed now maybe saves a rebuild later?
Looking at your pics, I think your first cam (closest to the generator) is not timed correctly. Those yellow marks are meaningless as far as timing is concerned.
Get yourself a manual first! The timing is crucial. Since you have an earlier ironhead, dont forget to line up the breather on the oil pump drive gear too.
Agree with Rider
and I think most folks set up Ironheads wayyy too Tight...Hell it will work just fine without shims at all...better thasn using a Shim under 10 to 15 Thou. which I would Not Do.
Check the "dogbones" for galling...may need replacements. Those are a Necessity.
manual!
what your referring to as a starter motor is the generator.
that idler gear with the paint dosent need timed.
gen does not need to be timed.
your marks on cams are off.
Not starter motor, generator. No timing needed for generator or idler gear.
Front cam gear not timed correct.
Ignore paint spots.
I only use the thickest shims and do not shim tight.
Clean out the bottom of the oil tank.
Note 1st gear only has a paint mark to line up,hope it's correct,manual shows a tick mark,but all I can see is a paint mark and a grooved line
[attach=0]
-JW
Also..... I believe the engine should be at TDC. If not, someone will say
What's the easiest way of finding tic on these bikes,other bikes I had had tech marks were points were or when cylinders were up
Meant tdc this spell check bites
I lift the bike on the jack....pull the plugs, put the bike in gear, pull the timing plug on the left side. I use a wire
put in the front spark plug hole, rotate the rear wheel slowly until the wire is as far up as it goes, look in the timing hole
look for the marks If you don't see any do it again until you see them. sorry I can't remember, one mark 2 marks.
As said before a manual (not a clymer) but a real HD manual is a must
Quote from: neilc on August 13, 2016, 03:34:00 PM
What's the easiest way of finding tic on these bikes,other bikes I had had tech marks were points were or when cylinders were up
Forget TDC. You're good to go except for that first cam. The mark is right there as JW113 said. Put it where it belongs.
Still can't find line up mark on that first gear,just the groove and that won't work because the cam lobe stops it from fitting, other than that I don't see a line like the other gears
Will try rotating motor to see if I can line up that gear at a different position
Just rotated motor,lifter won't allow the gear to go in still at that position due to its at its high spot on the gear lobe
Try taking the tappets out while putting the gears in the case.
-JW
All done,removed lifter from motor and gears are now timed,will now set up all lifters
Removed entire lifter and now all gears in and timed,wish someone had mentioned the obvious a couple of days ago,now just have to read manual on timing lifters,then that side of bike is done and onto transmission issue,thanks though for the responses,hope to help someone out if they need it
Done all gears in ,oil pump timed biggest issue was had to remove lifter out of first cam to get it in on the correct timing mark,after all the replays wish someone mention to remove lifter in the first place
Can't seem to reply to my own post for good news update
All set by pulling the lifter out for that cam all cams in and timed,now just have to time lifters and fix trannie
Sorry about repost one too many cold ones after gears in
how you gonna "time" lifters?
Quote from: JW113 on August 13, 2016, 12:16:41 PM
[attach=0]
-JW
That is your timing mark for the front cam. IGNORE THE PAINT MARKS!!!
The paint marks are gear sizing for factory assembly.
Quote from: garyajaz on August 15, 2016, 08:16:31 AM
how you gonna "time" lifters?
You beat me to it! :wtf: :rtfb: :nix: :scratch:
with a metronome silly :smilep:
Quote from: Pete_Vit on August 16, 2016, 06:47:39 AM
with a metronome silly :smilep:
I used a tuning fork. :SM:
Neil...
Please pull the tappet blocks out, then put the cams in. That's how the rest of us do it. I hope. Tappet blocks and tappets go in after cams are in and outer timing cover is bolted on.
-JW
And before the cylinders go on!