I changed these tensioner shoes about 7,500 mi ago give or take, They are supposed to be Cyco shoes. They were packaged in V Twin wrappers.
I've read that Cyco makes the V Twin tensioer shoes. So I'm assuming they are Cyco.
They are starting to pit already.
I was in process of replacing my lifters and figured why not do an inspection since I'm part of the way there anyway.. ( meaning if shoes are worn)
Is there anything better in the tensioner shoe dept than Cyco..or do I just order another set and plan on doing inspections every 10,000 mi.
Can't afford to upgrade to the later model hydraulic system.
That pitting if you can't tell is bad enough to catch a finger nail..
I haven't pulled the cam plate yet so I'm not sure how the inner one looks..
hard to tell from a photo but in the pic that does not look bad to me.
They don't have any signs of chain wear.. Just pitting.. I just pulled the cam plate, inner one is not worn at all either.. same pitting but not as much.
I've got them out so I'm just going to replace them. really didn't expect to see them pitted like that. I read some where along the line that the OEM shoes pitted because of a mfg process defect that allowed air pockets or bubbles to form in the material. ??? :scratch:
Thanks for replying. You have been a great help in the past to me with my cam case endeavors.
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
I've heard that the oil discolors them pretty quickly.
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
Don't recall if they were white when i put them in... could have been..
Quote from: Hossamania on January 14, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
I've heard that the oil discolors them pretty quickly.
that could be Hoss.. I don't recall if they were white..
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on January 14, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
I've heard that the oil discolors them pretty quickly.
that could be Hoss.. I don't recall if they were white..
The shoes I put in mine 15k ago were red. IIRC they were Fueling.
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 12:19:17 PM... I read some where along the line that the OEM shoes pitted because of a mfg process defect that allowed air pockets or bubbles to form in the material. ??? :scratch
The pittings result from material stress caused by the hammering chain strand. There is no dampening in this spring loaded tensioners.
Karl
Quote from: IronButt70 on January 14, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on January 14, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
I've heard that the oil discolors them pretty quickly.
that could be Hoss.. I don't recall if they were white..
The shoes I put in mine 15k ago were red. IIRC they were Fueling.
Thanx
Didn't know Fueling made them..
Quote from: Karl H. on January 15, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 12:19:17 PM... I read some where along the line that the OEM shoes pitted because of a mfg process defect that allowed air pockets or bubbles to form in the material. ??? :scratch
The pittings result from material stress caused by the hammering chain strand. There is no dampening in this spring loaded tensioners.
Karl
Thanx
Hadn't heard that theory before. Sounds very reasonable.
Imagine better material would solve the problem.
I know I could keep running these shoes for a while but the thought of the fragments running through the oil system bugs me.
Last oil change, about 2,200 mi ago the filter had no signs of shoe particles that I could see. :scratch:
Quote from: motorhogman on January 15, 2020, 06:04:06 AM
Quote from: IronButt70 on January 14, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on January 14, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
I've heard that the oil discolors them pretty quickly.
that could be Hoss.. I don't recall if they were white..
The shoes I put in mine 15k ago were red. IIRC they were Fueling.
Thanx
Didn't know Fueling made them..
Just realized you were talking about the spring loaded tensioners. Mine were hydraulic. My bad. :doh:
Quote from: IronButt70 on January 15, 2020, 06:26:20 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 15, 2020, 06:04:06 AM
Quote from: IronButt70 on January 14, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on January 14, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2020, 01:26:59 PM
all the Cyco shoes I've seen have been white :scratch:
I've heard that the oil discolors them pretty quickly.
that could be Hoss.. I don't recall if they were white..
The shoes I put in mine 15k ago were red. IIRC they were Fueling.
Thanx
Didn't know Fueling made them..
Just realized you were talking about the spring loaded tensioners. Mine were hydraulic. My bad. :doh:
NP..Be nice if Fueling did make them..
Put in a set of those V-Twin tensioners for a bud last summer, lasted less than one month, so they may be hit or miss, but I'll never use them again- replaced them with HD units.
Quote from: rigidthumper on January 15, 2020, 07:09:15 AM
Put in a set of those V-Twin tensioners for a bud last summer, lasted less than one month, so they may be hit or miss, but I'll never use them again- replaced them with HD units.
You can be sure I won't use them again..
Someone once told me that it was downshifting that put the most wear on the shoes, don't know, I went to gear drive on my "05 springer. Frank
Quote from: a_disalvo on January 15, 2020, 08:20:43 AM
Someone once told me that it was downshifting that put the most wear on the shoes, don't know, I went to gear drive on my "05 springer. Frank
Maybe have some effect.. I don't know.
I'm inclined to think poor design, inferior materials and lack of QC are the culprits though.
For sure , anyone that d-shifts W/O a few revs between gears is in that catorgory . One reason H-D has the slipper clutch , and less problems with shifted flywheels. Lot's of new bee's never had anything but auto everything in there driving life.
Quote from: hogpipes1 on January 15, 2020, 09:06:54 AM
For sure , anyone that d-shifts W/O a few revs between gears is in that catorgory . One reason H-D has the slipper clutch , and less problems with shifted flywheels. Lot's of new bee's never had anything but auto everything in there driving life.
True enough. Used to ride with a guy that had drag pipes of some sort and his favorite thing to do was no rev up and drop a gear to make all that ugly decel popping..
Me.. Never,. 52 years on 2 wheels and retired semi truck driver. I know better.
I may be guilty of coming off of my drag pipes or Thunderheader at 5000 rpms occasionally. Maybe more than occasionally. Sounds awesome! From my seat anyway.
A technique I learned on the Run for the Wall. We rode in tight formation, braking was discouraged as the brake lights caused a rubber band effect, in order to slow we downshifted, often at higher than normal speeds. Stayed in 4th gear at cruising speed, down to 3rd often at 55 mph, down to 2nd at 40 mph. Hell of a racket, but scrubbed speed pretty well. If we didn't like it, we could ride in back. I hate riding in back.
That practice has carried over with me all these years later.
Gear drive cams, so no tensioner issues to worry about.
Quote from: motorhogman on January 15, 2020, 06:09:43 AM
Quote from: Karl H. on January 15, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 12:19:17 PM... I read some where along the line that the OEM shoes pitted because of a mfg process defect that allowed air pockets or bubbles to form in the material. ??? :scratch
The pittings result from material stress caused by the hammering chain strand. There is no dampening in this spring loaded tensioners.
Karl
Thanx
Hadn't heard that theory before. Sounds very reasonable.
Imagine better material would solve the problem.
I know I could keep running these shoes for a while but the thought of the fragments running through the oil system bugs me.
Last oil change, about 2,200 mi ago the filter had no signs of shoe particles that I could see. :scratch:
The Cycos are made of PA6 (Polyamide). Way softer particles than those of the Phenolic resin originals.
Karl
Cut one in half.. Guess they are sort of white. They don't appear as white as the ones CYCO has on their web site though..
Quote from: Karl H. on January 15, 2020, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 15, 2020, 06:09:43 AM
Quote from: Karl H. on January 15, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 14, 2020, 12:19:17 PM... I read some where along the line that the OEM shoes pitted because of a mfg process defect that allowed air pockets or bubbles to form in the material. ??? :scratch
The pittings result from material stress caused by the hammering chain strand. There is no dampening in this spring loaded tensioners.
Karl
Thanx
Hadn't heard that theory before. Sounds very reasonable.
Imagine better material would solve the problem.
I know I could keep running these shoes for a while but the thought of the fragments running through the oil system bugs me.
Last oil change, about 2,200 mi ago the filter had no signs of shoe particles that I could see. :scratch:
The Cycos are made of PA6 (Polyamide). Way softer particles than those of the Phenolic resin originals.
Karl
I read that somewhere.. Less damage because they are softer material.. What about lodging in an oil passage, like in the crank bushing..?
"They are supposed to be Cyco shoes"
Source?
Quote from: Hossamania on January 15, 2020, 09:37:29 AM
I may be guilty of coming off of my drag pipes or Thunderheader at 5000 rpms occasionally. Maybe more than occasionally. Sounds awesome! From my seat anyway.
A technique I learned on the Run for the Wall. We rode in tight formation, braking was discouraged as the brake lights caused a rubber band effect, in order to slow we downshifted, often at higher than normal speeds. Stayed in 4th gear at cruising speed, down to 3rd often at 55 mph, down to 2nd at 40 mph. Hell of a racket, but scrubbed speed pretty well. If we didn't like it, we could ride in back. I hate riding in back.
That practice has carried over with me all these years later.
Gear drive cams, so no tensioner issues to worry about.
Hoss one of the reason both motors are gear drive cams SS cranks ect . I try to match shift on down shifts . I don't try to just rag out my engines but after there warmed up I bought them to have fun and that includes hitting rev limiter every now and then lol
If the cam chain(s)have a lot of miles on them uneven stretch due to wear on the chains will be harder on the tensioners.
Quote from: autoworker on January 15, 2020, 05:25:44 PM
If the cam chain(s)have a lot of miles on them uneven stretch due to wear on the chains will be harder on the tensioners.
Thanks,
These chains were recently replaced. They were also polished.
Maybe the springs are getting weak.
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on January 16, 2020, 07:07:55 AM
Maybe the springs are getting weak.
That's a possibility I guess.. Weak springs allowing the shoe to bounce against the chain ? I'm not sure how many mi on this set of springs but I'm guessing around 50,000.
They sure didn't feel weak when I retracted them.. LOL.. No way for me to measure the spring tension though.
Some where along the line of threads over the years I've read that older springs with less tension and used chains cause less wear..
Same pitting and wear marks on both shoes though..
Thanx for the reply.
If they are Twin Power, Cyco makes them. They (Cyco) have a toll free number and are very good about picking up the phone. Might give them a ring and talk to them about the pitting.
Quote from: Deye76 on January 16, 2020, 07:32:48 AM
If they are Twin Power, Cyco makes them. They (Cyco) have a toll free number and are very good about picking up the phone. Might give them a ring and talk to them about the pitting.
Thanx, I need to try and find the original packaging. I really don't recall if they were Twin Power.. I may have it some where.. I have a habit of saving old stuff like that... sometimes a bad habit.. Sometimes it pays off.. lol.. I'm just not organized about how I save it..
Quote from: motorhogman on January 16, 2020, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: Deye76 on January 16, 2020, 07:32:48 AM
If they are Twin Power, Cyco makes them. They (Cyco) have a toll free number and are very good about picking up the phone. Might give them a ring and talk to them about the pitting.
Thanx, I need to try and find the original packaging. I really don't recall if they were Twin Power.. I may have it some where.. I have a habit of saving old stuff like that... sometimes a bad habit.. Sometimes it pays off.. lol.. I'm just not organized about how I save it..
Check your credit card history if it was used for payment.
Quote from: hogpipes1 on January 16, 2020, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on January 16, 2020, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: Deye76 on January 16, 2020, 07:32:48 AM
If they are Twin Power, Cyco makes them. They (Cyco) have a toll free number and are very good about picking up the phone. Might give them a ring and talk to them about the pitting.
Thanx, I need to try and find the original packaging. I really don't recall if they were Twin Power.. I may have it some where.. I have a habit of saving old stuff like that... sometimes a bad habit.. Sometimes it pays off.. lol.. I'm just not organized about how I save it..
Check your credit card history if it was used for payment.
Thanx,
I know where and when I bought them. Just can't recall what the packaging was.
I believe when I ordered Cyco shoes from Phil, the box said Twin Power. Fine by me, I trust Phil.
The best answer for replacing tensioner shoes is gear drive cams if pinion runout allows. Changed mine at 30k and never thought about them again.
Quote from: 04rkryder on January 17, 2020, 09:41:14 AM
The best answer for replacing tensioner shoes is gear drive cams if pinion runout allows. Changed mine at 30k and never thought about them again.
Probably right..
Gear drive is not cheap though. Not even close.
New pads are cheap.
Quote from: Hossamania on January 17, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Gear drive is not cheap though. Not even close.
New pads are cheap.
Wish I could do gear drive.. looked at some conversions, upwards of $1700.00 in one case. Ain't gonna happen on this 20 year old bike..
I'll just do inspections on the shoes every 10 or 15 thousand mi.
Not that bad seeing how I'm down to about 5,000 a year these days..
I always wondered where the plastic goes from those tensioner shoes. You have to hope the filter gets it all. I did have a plugged piston cooler on my 2K RKC and it caused the cylinder to fail. Ended up doing the 124 experience along with gear drive and fueling in the cam chest. Could have bought a new bike$$$$$ but at least I know what I have and it is about as bomb proof as it can get. My 2002 Fatboy is gear drive cams but the counter weights are chain and plastic so eventually those glides will fail and cause damage to oil pump and maybe plug the piston coolers. I'm at 40k miles.
MIKE
Quote from: MIKEL on January 17, 2020, 02:49:17 PM
I always wondered where the plastic goes from those tensioner shoes. You have to hope the filter gets it all. I did have a plugged piston cooler on my 2K RKC and it caused the cylinder to fail. Ended up doing the 124 experience along with gear drive and fueling in the cam chest. Could have bought a new bike$$$$$ but at least I know what I have and it is about as bomb proof as it can get. My 2002 Fatboy is gear drive cams but the counter weights are chain and plastic so eventually those glides will fail and cause damage to oil pump and maybe plug the piston coolers. I'm at 40k miles.
MIKE
I have 112,000 mi on this engine. The only thing that's been into is the cam chest. I cut my filters open and have found fragments of the OEM shoes a few times over the past 19 + years. Last one I opened with the Twin Power ( I think they are T Power anyway) shoes I couldn't see any fragments.
My first set of shoes was replaced under warranty at close to 50,000 mi..
I just put a 03 back together that the inner tensioner was coming apart and plugged the scavenge port on the oil pump causing sumping.
Quote from: greasy on January 18, 2020, 03:52:28 PM
I just put a 03 back together that the inner tensioner was coming apart and plugged the scavenge port on the oil pump causing sumping.
I'd say that was pure luck...sumping being the only issue...
Very lucky !