HarleyTechTalk

If you could find a cheap Evo Sportster to work on, that would be much easier to find cheap and readily available parts to get it going. A lot more shops around willing and knowledgeable to work on it.
But again, they don't sell for a lot of money, so it would have to be bought smart.
Or, buy a crashed big twin, find cheap parts to repair it, and send it. I know a couple guys that do it on a regular basis and do ok. Again, it's about buying smart and sourcing  cheap parts, scouring swap meets, Craigslist, etc.

Well Gary, you won out on this one

NO SIR.
its you, Panzer, that came out with sanity and hair intact.
as well as money.

the evo idea Hoss has is good.

build cheap to ride.
sell?  again not so much.


bout 10 years ago I bought a 03 buell.
evo sporty motor. paid $3500 for it.
cosmetically perfect and stock. not cut up.
runs perfect. did not need anything... $3500

over the years  I put in batt, tires, brakes,  fork seals along with motor/tranny oil and filter.
that's it. 

still ride the thing.

There are so many good used bikes on the market, it's hard to find a good cheap one that can use a little tlc and flip for a decent profit.
Now, if you could find somebody that will help you find one at an auction, that would be the way to go.
For reference, yesterday a friend of mine bought a 2000 Sportster, 883, 10,000 miles, broken rear turn signal, ran good, everything else worked, for $2250. They were only asking $2400, and even then they came off of that. I figure they probably got it at auction for about $800.
He is not looking to flip it, just ride it.

  with Hoss, these look like some good prices for example
https://picklesgapcycleshack.com/Inventory/Pre-Owned-Inventory/USED/Harley-Davidson/Motorcycles/Unknown 

I think you should check out xlforum.net, it's really dedicated to just ironheads and you can get a better feel for the ironhead and why some people really like them.

Why? Nostalgia. Some of us old geezers are just stuck on nostalgia. You could make an incredibly convincing arguement why a brand new 2018 Chevy Silverado is light years better than my 1955 Chevy 3100 and you'd be right, but I still am not going to ditch my old beater and go for new. I like the old stuff. Same with Ironheads, they're a flash from the past. 1950's tech at it's best, grandaddy of the modern stuff. You can pull up to a bike gathering on a new bike and get lost in the crowd. Or pull up on an old antique piece of crap and people take notice and start asking questions. Either you're into that kind of thing or you're not. The wonderful thing about Ironheads is that if you are, they are about the cheapest way to get in the door.

-JW

why?
personally I like the punishment of kick starting a high compression stroker.
then riding with minimal brakes. more power than handling is another plus.

oh wait. 

"cheapest way to get in the door"

.... .....unless you're trying to buy mine---

Now yours is pure vintage. I think any of the 50s-60s models are going to be on the pricey side. 70s-80s, not so much. Unless it's a XR1000 or XLCR, those seem to bring a nice pile of dough.

It's kind of funny, the one in question here, 1984, is really about as good as a Sportster gets. Lighter late model welded steel frame with triangulated rear section, alternator charging system, stronger engine/trans cases, decent Kehin carb. And yet, nobody wants them. WTH?

-JW

Why? Well I think I answered a question identifying a Velocette for Panzer once, so I thought maybe he might like vintage and ingest more info on the iron head.
As to my why, I like the fact I have a magneto and carb (gravity fuel feed is pretty reliable) in my 1969 and no electric ignition, fuel injection nonsense. My nostalgia, is remembering 1969, I was riding a Mach III and my best friend had an XLCH, he would let me ride it, you could rev it up drop the clutch and burn rubber like a car, as the front end slowly rose up.
Hey, but to everybody each his own.

I understand wanting to buy an old Ironhead and get it roadworthy. I was just trying to point out the tough road ahead trying to make money doing it the first time, in my opinion. I love seeing the old iron on the road, and always gravitate toward it when it pulls into the lot.

Knowing what it costs to restore bikes (as that's what I do), ANY bike, I think it's hard to make any money at it. The only way I see is to not buy-restore-sell, but to run a restoration business and restore other peoples bikes for them, making money on your labor and parts. I had thought at one time that might be a nice retirement job, but then again...

-JW

Quote from: JW113 on March 11, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Now yours is pure vintage. I think any of the 50s-60s models are going to be on the pricey side. 70s-80s, not so much. Unless it's a XR1000 or XLCR, those seem to bring a nice pile of dough.

It's kind of funny, the one in question here, 1984, is really about as good as a Sportster gets. Lighter late model welded steel frame with triangulated rear section, alternator charging system, stronger engine/trans cases, decent Kehin carb. And yet, nobody wants them. WTH?

-JW

I think one reason they are not that popular, is that for not much more money you can get an FLH shovelhead, and sportsters have always been thought of as a "lesser" bike, unfair as that may be.
Also, an Evo Sportster does not need a top end every 20 to 30 thousand miles as the Ironhead motors have traditionally been known for. Maybe the ironheads don't need that kind did of service, I've not dealt with them, but I know the Shovelhead motors sure seemed to.

To be honest, I've never ridden an Ironhead even close to that kind of miles, so I would not be able to comment. However, calendar-wise, they've held up just fine.


I have to say that I would not own an Ironhead as my high mileage daily rider. The prior one was a hard tail chopper, good only for the local bar on Saturday night and the occasional poker run. My current one is quite a bit more practical, but even at that, after about an hour or so on the thing and I'm done for the day. One has to be a lot tougher than this old geez to wear out an Ironhead.


What I can tell you is that getting the heads on/off is a cake walk. If they do require frequent service, at least they made it fairly easy to do it.

-JW

The need for frequent head service is likely due to a poor tuneup.

However Ironheads have a serious deficiency in the combustion chamber design.
The "dome" or crown of the piston is very tall and divides the combustion chamber.
The spark plug is hidden from the majority of the fuel mixture.
This causes a very slow "delayed" ignition of the mixture.
This also results in poor inefficient combustion which in turn causes carbon deposits.

The fix is dual plugs, I think the MoCo never implemented this in production because they could not have the Ironheads be any faster than they were.
As it was in the right hands an Ironhead could beat a Big Twin. If they had made a production dual plug head no one would buy a Big Twin.
I think by this time the Ironheads place in their marketing scheme was an entry level or girls bike.

If you have the heads off this is the biggest bang for the buck mod you can do to an Ironhead.
This gives the Ironhead a much more efficient combustion chamber, better throttle response, better fuel mileage, and more power, WITH LESS SPARK ADVANCE!
Dual plugging dramatically shortens the flame propagation time so the motor needs significantly less spark advance for optimum operation.
It also gets significantly more of the fuel in the cylinder lit before peak pressure is reached, resulting in more power and a cleaner burn.
This is much easier on the motor, it broadens the "tuning window" and makes the motor less susceptible to detonation.
More complete combustion also will even keep the oil cleaner and decrease carbon deposits in the combustion chamber all while making more power and making it live longer.

Even if they had dual plugged the heads and turned the Ironhead into a fire breather, I don't think it would have been more popular than the big twins. As mentioned, it just wasn't comfortable for the long ride. It would have had to have been put into a much more comfortable chassis, and be able to do touring duty. Sportsters have always been faster than the FLH bikes, but not more popular.
The V-Rod had an incredible motor, look what happened to that.

Not to mention, the Sportster of the Ironhead era had an awful lot of competition. From the Brits, and later the Japanese. As far as touring/cop/parade bikes went (at least here in the USA), there was the FL/FLH, and then there was.... Sure, there were a limited number of models from Germany and Italy that were classified as tourer, but until the Honda Goldwing came along, the Big Twins basically had no competition. And then the Super Glide came along, which took even more sales away from Sportster.

Regards of it all, I still like 'em. Warts and all!


-JW

Quote from: Hossamania on March 13, 2019, 04:38:30 AM
Even if they had dual plugged the heads and turned the Ironhead into a fire breather, I don't think it would have been more popular than the big twins. As mentioned, it just wasn't comfortable for the long ride. It would have had to have been put into a much more comfortable chassis, and be able to do touring duty. Sportsters have always been faster than the FLH bikes, but not more popular.
The V-Rod had an incredible motor, look what happened to that.

I always called my Ironhead a Buck Board.
They would have sold a lot more of them if they had improved them. Look how many EVO Sportys were sold.

The V-Rod came too late, and was too much like the Asian bikes.

Quote from: Burnout on March 13, 2019, 08:39:07 AM

Quote from: Hossamania on March 13, 2019, 04:38:30 AM
Even if they had dual plugged the heads and turned the Ironhead into a fire breather, I don't think it would have been more popular than the big twins. As mentioned, it just wasn't comfortable for the long ride. It would have had to have been put into a much more comfortable chassis, and be able to do touring duty. Sportsters have always been faster than the FLH bikes, but not more popular.
The V-Rod had an incredible motor, look what happened to that.

I always called my Ironhead a Buck Board.
They would have sold a lot more of them if they had improved them. Look how many EVO Sportys were sold.

The V-Rod came too late, and was too much like the Asian bikes.

...OR maybe the V-Rod came too soon.... I know "that's what she said" 

Quote from: JW113 on March 13, 2019, 08:00:06 AM
Not to mention, the Sportster of the Ironhead era had an awful lot of competition. From the Brits, and later the Japanese. As far as touring/cop/parade bikes went (at least here in the USA), there was the FL/FLH, and then there was.... Sure, there were a limited number of models from Germany and Italy that were classified as tourer, but until the Honda Goldwing came along, the Big Twins basically had no competition. And then the Super Glide came along, which took even more sales away from Sportster.

Regards of it all, I still like 'em. Warts and all!


-JW
Yes; competition for the customer in the day...In '71 a Sportster was nearly twice the price of a BSA 650. I could only afford the BSA, and it served me well.  A few years later, in '76, I was looking to move "up" and test rode a Superglide and the new Gold Wing. I went with the 'Wing; at the time it was so far advanced; VERY fast and smooth, compared to the HD. Now; I got the bike I couldn't afford then ('74 XLCH) and a separate touring bike as required (FXDF).   

...in Kentucky I bought a new 71 650 BSA($1547) and traded for a new 72 XLCH($2020) and the sporty did not have lucas electrics   

..      since I'm bored      it took me 3 days to put 2 old avon speedmasters on my sporties. newest one was an '04 but no cracks and very good rubber. dont ask how old the date code on the other one is.  wife did help hold a spoon or 2.