M8 Pinging / Detonation Sounds ?

[PoorUB]

If KD4's are on back order how in the hell are they building new bikes. Leaving them off?
Zkk

Factories can be funny. They will allot so many pieces for production, and so many for parts supply and the two do not cross. They will not pull parts from production to replenish parts supply.

Years ago I went on a tour through a Generac generator plant. The next day I was back at work and looking over back ordered parts. I had a part from Generac that was back ordered so I called to find out how long it would be. Three months I was told. The day before they were assembling the very same model on the factory floor. I asked the gent in customer service to do me a favor and walk down on the factory floor and pull the part out of production and ship it to me. He hesitated for a second and told me the part would ship that day!

[Moparnut72]

I kind of knew that but was asking a rehtorical question. But it seems to me a couple of happy customers in the field are worth more than one in the bush. But as we all know a lot of companies don't think that way. Once they sell something to somebody get them out the door pronto and forget 'em. Not the way for keeping customers and selling them another new bike down the road.  I once bought a new model from a Chrysler Dealer. It was a new hot model and all the dealers I checked looking for a certain color had marked them up over list. One dealer had one in even a nicer color and knocked off $500. I told them others were marking it up a couple of thou. Salesman told me he wanted to sell me more through the years, not just this car. Great dealer, Denham Chrysler in Redding Calif.
kk

[Nastytls]

That's a smart business. Too many dealers out there, particularly in the HD world, want to gouge you for every last penny. To me, thinking long vs. short is a much smarter play and will earn them more over time. The dealer I go to offered me a discount on parts without me even asking. They also don't charge the BS cash grab "setup and documentation" fees when you buy a bike ( new or used ). They are a smaller family owned shop, not one of the greedy corporate conglomerate owned shops. I won't buy parts from any other dealer now and if I ever buy a bagger it will be from them.

[rbabos]

That's a smart business. Too many dealers out there, particularly in the HD world, want to gouge you for every last penny. To me, thinking long vs. short is a much smarter play and will earn them more over time. The dealer I go to offered me a discount on parts without me even asking. They also don't charge the BS cash grab "setup and documentation" fees when you buy a bike ( new or used ). They are a smaller family owned shop, not one of the greedy corporate conglomerate owned shops. I won't buy parts from any other dealer now and if I ever buy a bagger it will be from them.

Good for him.  How does he skirt the MoCo demands? They just about tell you how to breathe when you become a dealer.
Ron

[Nastytls]

Not sure what you mean?

[harley_cruiser]

Update on the Pinging M8 we have.......we installed a new Knock Sensor ...Voltage went from 0 to 2.5 ...same as the Front one...had a chance to ride it but it was a cool day......no pinging....so fingers crossed for the spring

Translated
Update on the Pinging M8 we have.......we installed a new Knock Sensor ...Voltage went from 0 to 2.5 ...same as the Front one...had a chance to ride it but it was a cool day......no pinging....so fingers crossed for the spring

[HV]

Not sure what happened with that post 

[GoFastRKS114]

HV  I'm looking forward to an update. I am having the same issue with my 17 RKS. 107 with a Stage IV and dyno'd. V&H X-pipes. It sounds like gravel in the front pipe under load, with moderate throttle roll-on from 2500-3K in 5th or 6th. I took it out today for a 50* ride and it only did it once. I run Premium fuel only. Ran 1 tank of Octane Boost and it improved some. Bike did it during break-in before being dynoed. I rode very conservatively to avoid it. After 1k service and dyno, same issue. Took it back in, and different tech said the dyno map was too advanced in that RPM range. He backed it off some, but said that any more would cost me power. It showed 118 ft of torque on the initial dynojet test. Still does it consistently when the motor is warm, even in cool temps. Very interested to see if anyone finds the problem, and i'm wondering if I should be expecting more power from a Stage IV 114?

[PoorUB]

I question your Dyno operator's tuning ability. Plus, which tuner? A HD tuner will allow a change in tune just to certain limits. If your engine needs to be adjusted out of those limits, you're screwed. If the engine pings, you are loosing performance, so I don't agree with his comment.

[Gordon61]

I logged my new 2018 Fatboy and it was pulling 3 or 4 degrees all over the place 

It only had 200 miles on the clock before it went away for the winter - I asked about it somewhere else and was told that to run it for 500 miles because they were set up like that from the factory and needed a good few hundred miles to "learn"

There is a learning curve with dual plugs.

I've not heard this one before??
I know there are spark removal tables but they should be pretty much 0 under normal running should they not? ...well, if the spark tables are tuned correct anyway. Is there some other learning somewhere?

[No Cents]

  did you do a leak down test on it?

[Sunny Jim]

Mine consistently pulls timing / Knock señor count/ PV gauges. I have collected data regularly on the PV gauges ad downloaded it on MLV. I have removed timing and I still get a reading.
I am going to turn off the Knock Sensors.
107/ CR460/ street canons/ AC/ PV target tune.

[1FSTRK]

I logged my new 2018 Fatboy and it was pulling 3 or 4 degrees all over the place 

It only had 200 miles on the clock before it went away for the winter - I asked about it somewhere else and was told that to run it for 500 miles because they were set up like that from the factory and needed a good few hundred miles to "learn"

There is a learning curve with dual plugs.

I've not heard this one before??
I know there are spark removal tables but they should be pretty much 0 under normal running should they not? ...well, if the spark tables are tuned correct anyway. Is there some other learning somewhere?

I was referring to the the learning curve of the people making the timing maps. Dual plugs and pent roof chambers require less timing and if the timing maps are written with the same curve that worked on performance TC's then the ECM will be pulling timing. The problem will be worse when free flowing exhaust, air cleaners and good cams are installed and do not get custom spark maps designed. One other thing that comes into play is the air flow curve of the new heads which is totally different from the HD norm so VE and cylinder pressures do not follow the traditional rpm curve.   

[1FSTRK]

Mine consistently pulls timing / Knock señor count/ PV gauges. I have collected data regularly on the PV gauges ad downloaded it on MLV. I have removed timing and I still get a reading.
I am going to turn off the Knock Sensors.
107/ CR460/ street canons/ AC/ PV target tune.

It can be you are not get spark knock, with no ion sensing the mechanical knock sensors pick up all types on noise and the ECM has to be program at the factory level to ignore this extra noise.

[Gordon61]

  did you do a leak down test on it?

If that was at me, no, she was wintered before the valve seat thing came to light ...but it will be first on the to do list come spring.  Mine also produces white smoke until it is warmed up 

I was referring to the the learning curve of the people making the timing maps.

OK I got ya.  So do you think the factory are still learning and the stock maps are a bit off then?

[1FSTRK]

I was referring to the the learning curve of the people making the timing maps.

OK I got ya.  So do you think the factory are still learning and the stock maps are a bit off then?

HD has been releasing bikes and then refining maps as they go starting with the first EFI bikes. With the big changes from TC to M-8 there is no reason to expect the maps to be more than a rough start at this point. Now add any of the aftermarket parts and it is is a total R&D situation.

[No Cents]

  I was actually asking HV...but it would be something that I would be checking if I owned an M8.
If one is leaking around the valve seat I would think it could cause all sorts of issues. Maybe even cause pinging. 

[HV]

That was one of he first things the MOCO asked us to check....it was well with in Spec.....  Knock sensor looks like its fixed it

[FastFLSTF]

Coming into this late, but my new 2019 FLTRU does the same thing. Oddly, I can roll into it around 2500 and no ping, but hitting it between 3000-4000 and it sounds like a can full of forks. Was wondering if this was a thing.

[Durwood]

Coming into this late, but my new 2019 FLTRU does the same thing. Oddly, I can roll into it around 2500 and no ping, but hitting it between 3000-4000 and it sounds like a can full of forks. Was wondering if this was a thing.

It needs to be properly tuned.

[FastFLSTF]

Brand new bike with nothing but slip-ons.

[Durwood]

Brand new bike with nothing but slip-ons.

Even just changing mufflers will have adverse effects on the calibration. This has been debated to death but the data tells the story.

Get a proper tune and your woes will go away.

[HV]

Not sure if I posted this before but....double check the plug wires on the coils.....found 3 or 4 so far loose...push in and you will hear it click in to the coil harder.....this stopped a few from pinging...mostly the rear cyl plug on the intake side

[FastFLSTF]

Thanks Brian. Will check that.

[HV]

Ive found a few loose Mike .....always stops the pinging unless the Knock sensor is toast