2018 107 sumping

[dheath9994]

Hi just did a oil change on a friend of mines 2018 street glide with the oil cooled M8. During the initial 1,000 mile service his bike came up almost a quart low on the dip stick we chalked this up to possible oil getting burned during break in our local dealer also told us some M8s have been burning a little bit of oil. Fast forward to the second service and again showing a quart low so this time we decided to level the bike off and pull the plug at the bottom of the sump. He gets 16oz of oil out of it, clearly his bike is sumping.

My question is who else has dealt with this and what is the dealership likely to do when he brings it back on a warranty claim?

[misfitJason]

there are multiple threads related to this on this forum and several other forums.  Use the search function and it should give you all you ever wanted to know

[dheath9994]

there are multiple threads related to this on this forum and several other forums.  Use the search function and it should give you all you ever wanted to know

I did search initially I'm seeing really only CVOs or stage 4 bikes being posted. I wanna hear from people with stock or stage 1 107 oil cooled Milwaukee 8s

[HV]

We had one 2018 107 sumping.....but it had high Mileage

[Rusty Steel]

I changed my oil @1100 on 2018 RG.. I got 17 oz. when I pulled the crank sensor.

[Helmwurst]

I am getting sumping now also. 2017 107 Road Glide. Bike now has 5000+ miles, due for service. I have a question out on the post of "new oil pump or not" but no replies yet. Have you tried riding after draining the case and re-checked the oil level in the case? I got 6 oz out after draining the 10oz out on a short 25 mile ride.

[No Cents]

 just wait for a few more months and the MoCo will say 20 ounces out the sump is normal. 
Helmwurst...ride it a few more times and then drain the sump. Let us know what you find.

[HV]

Bottom line is....any more then 6OZ in the sump is too much...they do it randomly....stop check.....drain the sump.....re start...it may never do it again.......the cure as far as I can see is the updated oil pump inner plate with the new seal and reinforced to prevent warping ....Im told all new 2019s have this ....will the Moco update it on older bikes?  NO  unless they sump and do damage then they will address it....nothing a dealer can do ...its all up to the Mothership 

[No Cents]

   ...if they ever get this issue ironed out with these M8's I might have to visit the local dealer and kick the tires on a new one.
    I do hope the MoCo has came up with the fix. I still personally think it has something to do with them not being vented properly...but it's just a thought. I have no real proof as I don't own one.
    HV...have you noticed any additional pressure when you go to unscrew the oil dip stick? I've heard owners of M8's say they couldn't hardly get the dip sticks to unscrew after they rode the bike and everything was good and hot. 

[cbumdumb]

My 2018 filled the crankcase nothing on dipstick  layed over just after idle damn near dropped bike in traffic twin cooled 107. It had about 5300 miles . Although not my bike any more it is being rebuilt . It had fourth gen oil pump piston cooling jets where not a factor . It was stage one only . 

[HV]

Havent seen any venting issues.....New oil pumps are no fix....they need the new updated inside oil pump plate

[DTTJGlide]

That one looks completely different than the one they are showing over at HDF. What's the part number for the one you're showing us?

[Bike31]

62400222 P/N in pic. Apparently some early production CVO's and maybe others were built without this new part with the large seal.

[Ozbob]

Different number for complete assembly by the looks, but sure looks like a diferent casting than above, one above looks billet[attachimg=1]

[HV]

The one I showed was a pre production Billet ...

[08flstf]

I'm in the middle of installing a cam, exhaust, and breather. I checked mine at the crank sensor and got 6 1/2 oz. out. That's with a little over 1700 miles and plenty of visits to the rev limiter. I put in the new back plate with the seal and the latest version of their oil pump. Time will tell.

[Helmwurst]

I'm in the middle of installing a cam, exhaust, and breather. I checked mine at the crank sensor and got 6 1/2 oz. out. That's with a little over 1700 miles and plenty of visits to the rev limiter. I put in the new back plate with the seal and the latest version of their oil pump. Time will tell.

I was getting ready to do the cam swap myself until this oil issue popped up.  Also have a engine vibration that they need to look into. I thought it might be caused by the oil buildup in the case but it is still there after draining the excess oil out of the case.

[rbabos]

   ...if they ever get this issue ironed out with these M8's I might have to visit the local dealer and kick the tires on a new one.
    I do hope the MoCo has came up with the fix. I still personally think it has something to do with them not being vented properly...but it's just a thought. I have no real proof as I don't own one.
    HV...have you noticed any additional pressure when you go to unscrew the oil dip stick? I've heard owners of M8's say they couldn't hardly get the dip sticks to unscrew after they rode the bike and everything was good and hot. 

I somewhat agree on the breather thing. There shouldn't be any pressure build up beyond whatever stiction is on the breather valves to open. That would be next to none, or should be if designed correctly. How a warped pump cover and needing a seal still seems like a desperation attempt at a fix at what might not be the real reason. Pressure forcing the rotor off of the contact surface an losing prime makes more sense to me. Time will tell. Still a "Potty mouth" show, no matter how one looks at it.
Ron

[HV]

They are saying the warped plates allow for Cavitation and loss of oil being removed from the sump....WTF do they know lol

[1FSTRK]

They are saying the warped plates allow for Cavitation and loss of oil being removed from the sump....WTF do they know lol

So they are finding warped pump plates in the bikes that are sumping?
If so wonder why they added a seal between the pump and pinion bearing rather than making thicker, stronger plates.

[Moparnut72]

Donny Peterson has an article in American Iron this month addressing this very issue. He has what I believe to be a valid explanation for why this is happening. He also has an idea on how to prevent this from happening but it is somewhat complicated and would probably require more of a factory redesign in my opinion but he said independent shop should look into it. He also explains how fluid transfer from transmission to primary case is also a part of this problem. All of this is a result of EPA and European regulations preventing venting to the atmosphere. Nonetheless a very interesting read.
kk

 

[rbabos]

They are saying the warped plates allow for Cavitation and loss of oil being removed from the sump....WTF do they know lol

Inlet cavitation would show up in the form of metal damage and would be obvious. I think they, whoever they are are just using fancy word to make themselves sound important. That should have been caught in the early stages of testing a new design, yet here we are in the third year of production, still looking for a cure. I really have to question how well they were tested before ramming them into production. Take the Revolution for example and what real testing does. Sure they blew up a few along the road but when done they had a pre production engine having a durability the rest of the HD line could only dream about. In 15 years, only a shift fork upgrade and a longer fingered internal spring for the shift shaft. Neither was an earth shattering issue yet the factory upgraded both by 2004, back when Willey G gave a "Potty mouth".  Many high mile 2002-2004 originals still running around.  For a flag ship engine like the M8 they sure are screwing the pooch on issues. That's what bugs me the most . They've burned the bridge for me ever buying another new HD. It's become a profit and fk the customer company now.
Ron

[BVHOG]

They are saying the warped plates allow for Cavitation and loss of oil being removed from the sump....WTF do they know lol

Inlet cavitation would show up in the form of metal damage and would be obvious. I think they, whoever they are are just using fancy word to make themselves sound important. That should have been caught in the early stages of testing a new design, yet here we are in the third year of production, still looking for a cure. I really have to question how well they were tested before ramming them into production. Take the Revolution for example and what real testing does. Sure they blew up a few along the road but when done they had a pre production engine having a durability the rest of the HD line could only dream about. In 15 years, only a shift fork upgrade and a longer fingered internal spring for the shift shaft. Neither was an earth shattering issue yet the factory upgraded both by 2004, back when Willey G gave a "Potty mouth".  Many high mile 2002-2004 originals still running around.  For a flag ship engine like the M8 they sure are screwing the pooch on issues. That's what bugs me the most . They've burned the bridge for me ever buying another new HD. It's become a profit and fk the customer company now.
Ron

I wish I could say I thought you were wrong but I feel you are right on the money.    And it has to be some sort of cavitation as if it wasn't then it wouldn't be sumping. Cavitation can be caused by something as simple as too small of an inlet. Much like a hydraulic pump with an obstruction on the tank inlet. And what about the return side? Has anyone considered we might be looking at the wrong end of the total system?

[Scooterfish]

   Just remember there is an auto industry guy at the helm of the mother ship now. The faster you can bring an idea today to production date the greater the profit.

[rbabos]

They are saying the warped plates allow for Cavitation and loss of oil being removed from the sump....WTF do they know lol

Inlet cavitation would show up in the form of metal damage and would be obvious. I think they, whoever they are are just using fancy word to make themselves sound important. That should have been caught in the early stages of testing a new design, yet here we are in the third year of production, still looking for a cure. I really have to question how well they were tested before ramming them into production. Take the Revolution for example and what real testing does. Sure they blew up a few along the road but when done they had a pre production engine having a durability the rest of the HD line could only dream about. In 15 years, only a shift fork upgrade and a longer fingered internal spring for the shift shaft. Neither was an earth shattering issue yet the factory upgraded both by 2004, back when Willey G gave a "Potty mouth".  Many high mile 2002-2004 originals still running around.  For a flag ship engine like the M8 they sure are screwing the pooch on issues. That's what bugs me the most . They've burned the bridge for me ever buying another new HD. It's become a profit and fk the customer company now.
Ron

I wish I could say I thought you were wrong but I feel you are right on the money.    And it has to be some sort of cavitation as if it wasn't then it wouldn't be sumping. Cavitation can be caused by something as simple as too small of an inlet. Much like a hydraulic pump with an obstruction on the tank inlet. And what about the return side? Has anyone considered we might be looking at the wrong end of the total system?

Possibly. After what, four different pumps maybe that isn't the issue but rather a masking agent for the real problem, like you say.  Anyway, it's fun to speculate. Not so much for people that spent onward of 35k and the bike spent more time in the shop then the road. I think I'd blow a gasket if it was my bike.
I also don't buy into Peterson's claim of sumping and gear box transfer caused from the same source. Two separate issues the way I see it.
Ron