Drag Specialties 4.250 cylinders

[BVHOG]

Drag Specialties now has a 4.250 cylinder for the M8 motor, at a retail price of 449.00 these things are very affordable. Pair them with the new 4.250 super duty UEM pistons and you will have an extremely cost effective big inch motor.  Part number 0931-0823 and they actually have them in stock.

[Nastytls]

Any idea on who is making them for them?

[BVHOG]

Any idea on who is making them for them?

No, but I should have a set here this week and will compare them to a set of S&S I have.

[Billy]

 [attach=0,msg1278394]

These came from FuelMoto. 4.25 bore. No markings on them other than front and rear

[Billy]

Spigot diameter is 4.385, spigot length is 1.208.

[Geezer_Glider]

I think they are these
http://daytona-global.com/products/?page=Products_Product&mfrID=0&categID=7&subcategID=95&productID=88186
They were talked about here a while back.
Just saying,
R Meyer

[les]

There will probably be extra costs:
Cams
Cam service kit
Bigger injectors
VPC clutch
Maybe a new exhaust
Maybe a new air filter
Tuning

[HD/Wrench]

Have 4 sets in house all going in builds  Very straight very round  Currently all sets are holding at .0025 on the pistons we are using with +/- .0002 at the very bottom .0001 middle ..  That is great   tolerance  control / QC for the cylinder

[BVHOG]

I think they are these
http://daytona-global.com/products/?page=Products_Product&mfrID=0&categID=7&subcategID=95&productID=88186
They were talked about here a while back.
Just saying,
R Meyer

Yes they are indeed Daytona cylinders, Sheet from daytona came with them in the box.  Just did a quick measure and not overly impressed but we will see how they are in a torque plate.

[BVHOG]

[attach=0,msg1278394]

These came from FuelMoto. 4.25 bore. No markings on them other than front and rear

These in the pic are definitely the same cylinder as the Drag/Daytona, the only different marking is the little circle machine mark where the "D" was machined off, and the price I'm guessing.

[BVHOG]

These are pics of the Drag vs the S&S  Top pic S&S left Daytona right   Second pic S&S bottom,  Daytona top    Bottom pic self explanatory.  Keep in mind the S&S cylinder looks thicker as it is an unfinished cylinder and still has to be honed.  The Daytona cylinder spigot has a huge taper for ring lead in making it look thinner as well.  The S&S has a much better powdercoat finish and thinner fins more like stock. The S&S appears to have a much thicker liner but it only appears to be at the top.  Which one is better? One lists for 439.00 and the other 799.00 and at this point I have not heard good or bad about either.  Like most things time will tell.  I don't see anything at this point to scare me from either. 

[Mogollon]

These are pics of the Drag vs the S&S  Top pic S&S left Daytona right   Second pic S&S bottom,  Daytona top    Bottom pic self explanatory.  Keep in mind the S&S cylinder looks thicker as it is an unfinished cylinder and still has to be honed.  The Daytona cylinder spigot has a huge taper for ring lead in making it look thinner as well.  The S&S has a much better powdercoat finish and thinner fins more like stock. The S&S appears to have a much thicker liner but it only appears to be at the top.  Which one is better? One lists for 439.00 and the other 799.00 and at this point I have not heard good or bad about either.  Like most things time will tell.  I don't see anything at this point to scare me from either.

BVHOG, thanks for sharing this information.

I wonder if you can check a few cylinder dimensions.

Can you measure the distance the cylinder spigots extend down from the cylinder base on both the S&S and Daytona cylinders. I suspect the length will be will be between 1.200" and 1.300".

If you have a stock M8 107 cylinder, or SE Stage III or Stage IV kit cylinder handy, can you measure their spigot lengths too?

Do you have a dial caliper to measure the spigot thickness of both cylinders? I suspect .070" to .090". Thicker would be better for improved cylinder sealing.

Another interesting measurement would be the distance between the crankcase cylinder deck and the top of the piston oilers. If you have an M8 with the top end disassembled, this spec should be easily available.

If the Daytona cylinder's pistons are from UEM's KB line, I suspect it is a 4032 high-silicone forging. If not, it could be a Hypereutectic casting. Can you tell? I don't think KB makes a 2618 low-silicon alloy Harley piston.

Do you have a photo comparing the S&S and Daytona pistons?

I wonder what's the difference in liner alloy between the S&S and Daytona cylinders. Are they using 100,000 psi Ductile or something else? I guess time will tell.

To my knowledge, the only American companies that make sleeves are Darton, LA Sleeve and Advance Sleeve. The S&S or Daytona sleeves used may come from overseas.

The alloy of the sleeve will, in part, determine how well the cylinders last. I assume these are throw-away cylinders with no overbore pistons available. Is that correct?

Anyway, thanks much. Looking forward to any info you can provide.

[turboprop]

These are pics of the Drag vs the S&S  Top pic S&S left Daytona right   Second pic S&S bottom,  Daytona top    Bottom pic self explanatory.  Keep in mind the S&S cylinder looks thicker as it is an unfinished cylinder and still has to be honed.  The Daytona cylinder spigot has a huge taper for ring lead in making it look thinner as well.  The S&S has a much better powdercoat finish and thinner fins more like stock. The S&S appears to have a much thicker liner but it only appears to be at the top.  Which one is better? One lists for 439.00 and the other 799.00 and at this point I have not heard good or bad about either.  Like most things time will tell.  I don't see anything at this point to scare me from either.

BVHOG, thanks for sharing this information.

I wonder if you can check a few cylinder dimensions.

Can you measure the distance the cylinder spigots extend down from the cylinder base on both the S&S and Daytona cylinders. I suspect the length will be will be between 1.200" and 1.300".

If you have a stock M8 107 cylinder, or SE Stage III or Stage IV kit cylinder handy, can you measure their spigot lengths too?

Do you have a dial caliper to measure the spigot thickness of both cylinders? I suspect .070" to .090". Thicker would be better for improved cylinder sealing.

Another interesting measurement would be the distance between the crankcase cylinder deck and the top of the piston oilers. If you have an M8 with the top end disassembled, this spec should be easily available.

If the Daytona cylinder's pistons are from UEM's KB line, I suspect it is a 4032 high-silicone forging. If not, it could be a Hypereutectic casting. Can you tell? I don't think KB makes a 2618 low-silicon alloy Harley piston.

Do you have a photo comparing the S&S and Daytona pistons?

I wonder what's the difference in liner alloy between the S&S and Daytona cylinders. Are they using 100,000 psi Ductile or something else? I guess time will tell.

To my knowledge, the only American companies that make sleeves are Darton, LA Sleeve and Advance Sleeve. The S&S or Daytona sleeves used may come from overseas.

The alloy of the sleeve will, in part, determine how well the cylinders last. I assume these are throw-away cylinders with no overbore pistons available. Is that correct?

Anyway, thanks much. Looking forward to any info you can provide.

Yo do know the Daytona cylinders are made in Japan right?

[Billy]

[attach=0,msg1278394]

These came from FuelMoto. 4.25 bore. No markings on them other than front and rear

These in the pic are definitely the same cylinder as the Drag/Daytona, the only different marking is the little circle machine mark where the "D" was machined off, and the price I'm guessing.

Looks like FM only sells them in their kit, $1699 with pistons, cam, lifters, adj rods and gaskets. Not too bad.

https://www.fuelmotousa.com/i-23897756-fuel-moto-m8-128-big-bore-kit-for-114-117-engines.html

Did the cylinders you got from Drag come with the bores finished?

[Mopower]

I believe these are the same at better pricing

http://www.vtwinmfg.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/VTwinProd1_10101_10102_3420904_-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M8-Big-Bore-Black-Cylinder-Set-for-Harley-Davidson-motorcycles-v-twin-11-1196/302929728567?hash=item468804d437:g:MmkAAOSw0Rlbzb0x

[yobtaf103]

I believe these are the same at better pricing

http://www.vtwinmfg.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/VTwinProd1_10101_10102_3420904_-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M8-Big-Bore-Black-Cylinder-Set-for-Harley-Davidson-motorcycles-v-twin-11-1196/302929728567?hash=item468804d437:g:MmkAAOSw0Rlbzb0x

Daytona head office Japan with manufacture probably Taiwan
V-twin mfg = Taiwan Ted
Funny both descriptions say case bore required , that should slow down sales!

[BVHOG]

[attach=0,msg1278394]

These came from FuelMoto. 4.25 bore. No markings on them other than front and rear

These in the pic are definitely the same cylinder as the Drag/Daytona, the only different marking is the little circle machine mark where the "D" was machined off, and the price I'm guessing.

Looks like FM only sells them in their kit, $1699 with pistons, cam, lifters, adj rods and gaskets. Not too bad.

https://www.fuelmotousa.com/i-23897756-fuel-moto-m8-128-big-bore-kit-for-114-117-engines.html

Did the cylinders you got from Drag come with the bores finished?

Yes the bores are finished, 1699.00 hmmm, let's just say that leaves a pretty healthy markup and leave it at that.   Kinda surprised that Drag is selling them, they also have 96 and 103 big bore cylinders for 195.00 retail in the same add.

[HD/Wrench]

I have several sets in stock and Every one I checked is very straight and round in and out of tq plates not much changed from into out . Thus far impressed ,  I bought through drag Tucker rocky is adding them as well ,

I am using / selling them with the Wiseco piston every one we have checked is right at .0025 piston to wall at the very bottom of the cylinder it will vary a few tenths there . Not that that is a deal breaker one way or the other

1.209 spigot length

1.712 from top of case to oiler ( I measure to the flat of the oiler)

Thickness is .073

[No Cents]

    I'm getting ready to help Randy today take apart a 107" and put a Fuel Moto bolt on 124" kit on it. This will be my first time tearing into the M8. I look forward to the learning experience.
    I looked at all the Fuel Moto parts that came with the kit yesterday...and they all seemed to be nice. The cylinders that came with the kit did look nice. The pistons are CP and of course they looked like jewelry. A set of Smith Brothers p/rods. The gaskets were Cometic and the lifters and cam was out of the Bob Wood stable. The customer had a new SE t/body and 5.5 injectors sitting there. A new inner Torrington 168 cam bearing came with the kit. He also had a new backing plate and air filter that looked to be a washable type filter that came from Fuel Moto. I don't know if that was part of the kit...or an add on.
    It will be interesting to see how it turns out. The t/body intake and the heads are being sent out to be massaged on.

[HD/Wrench]

So same cylinder that Bob was talking about ??

[No Cents]

  I'm not sure Steve...I didn't look at the cylinders today. But from what I recall they looked like the cylinders Billy posted a picture of.    I'll take a closer look at them when I go back over to Randy's house again.
  Randy and I spent 4 hours getting it tore down and we stopped after we got the heads pulled off. What a bunch of plumbing to remove on these M8's with the oil lines running over top the rocker boxes.  This bike had an oil soaked air cleaner and the breather bolts were filled with milk. We ended up bending a 7/16" wrench to be able to remove the rear rocker box bolts.
  I wanted to check the fluid levels on this 2018 RG with it having 7K on the clock. The tranny dip stick was bone dry upon removal.
  Here is what we recorded for fluid levels.
Primary= 45+ ounces came out.
Engine sump= 12 ounces came out.
Tranny= 15 ounces came out.

  Let's just say from what I've seen after my first tear down of a M8...I'm not going to be in a hurry to rush out and buy one.


    added later:
does anyone know what the correct capcities are for all 3 holes for a 2018 Road Glide?

[Billy]

So same cylinder that Bob was talking about ??

Yes, it appears the FM cylinders are the same as the ones Bob have that came from Drag/Daytona.

[Mopower]

  I'm not sure Steve...I didn't look at the cylinders today. But from what I recall they looked like the cylinders Billy posted a picture of.    I'll take a closer look at them when I go back over to Randy's house again.
  Randy and I spent 4 hours getting it tore down and we stopped after we got the heads pulled off. What a bunch of plumbing to remove on these M8's with the oil lines running over top the rocker boxes.  This bike had an oil soaked air cleaner and the breather bolts were filled with milk. We ended up bending a 7/16" wrench to be able to remove the rear rocker box bolts.
  I wanted to check the fluid levels on this 2018 RG with it having 7K on the clock. The tranny dip stick was bone dry upon removal.
  Here is what we recorded for fluid levels.
Primary= 45+ ounces came out.
Engine sump= 12 ounces came out.
Tranny= 15 ounces came out.

  Let's just say from what I've seen after my first tear down of a M8...I'm not going to be in a hurry to rush out and buy one.


    added later:
does anyone know what the correct capcities are for all 3 holes for a 2018 Road Glide?

I'm working from memory, I just changed all 3 fluids in my bike a few weeks ago 2017 Streetglide.
Transmission - 28 oz
Primary 30 oz wet  and 34 oz dry
Engine called for 5 qts, I added 4 and it put me slightly above the qt low line. I still need to add 1/2 qt

[Jamie Long]

We have used several different manufacturers for M8 cylinders in our kits based on availability and logistics, all of them of very good quality. The latest cylinders in our kits are now supplied from a single channel and a preferred manufacturer we work closely with, a great company not far from us based out of Viola, WI. 

[kd]

We have used several different manufacturers for M8 cylinders in our kits based on availability and logistics, all of them of very good quality. The latest cylinders in our kits are now supplied from a single channel and a preferred manufacturer we work closely with, a great company not far from us based out of Viola, WI. 

   

[prodrag1320]

these 124" cylinders are being marketed by a bunch of distributors (drag,tedds,western,ect) ive seen them from everyone but drag,their the same (and im sure drag is too) and who knows where their made,highly doubt japan,tiawan or korea most likely. best bet (IMO) is to go with S&S (or FM if they are actually having their cylinders made by S&S),or just do a 120" build using your HD cylinders with CP pistons

[HD/Wrench]

If I am reading this  right the Fm kit is the same daytona cylinders , ?/  not sure but that is how I read it ?  I have zero issue with the cylinders and they have worked well for us and countless others

these 124" cylinders are being marketed by a bunch of distributors (drag,tedds,western,ect) ive seen them from everyone but drag,their the same (and im sure drag is too) and who knows where their made,highly doubt japan,tiawan or korea most likely. best bet (IMO) is to go with S&S (or FM if they are actually having their cylinders made by S&S),or just do a 120" build using your HD cylinders with CP pistons

[attach=0,msg1278394]

These came from FuelMoto. 4.25 bore. No markings on them other than front and rear

These in the pic are definitely the same cylinder as the Drag/Daytona, the only different marking is the little circle machine mark where the "D" was machined off, and the price I'm guessing.

[Billy]

Just waiting on the heads to come back from FM to finish up this 128.

[attach=0]

[No Cents]

 where did the pistons end up being for deck height?

[Billy]

where did the pistons end up being for deck height?

I measured +.003 (front & rear) with no base gasket, base gasket is .014, head gasket is .030, so that makes the net squish .041.

[No Cents]

  thanks Billy 
What did you think of that paint job on that CVO...it has to be my favorite I've seen so far.

[Billy]

I like it a lot 

[HD/Wrench]

where did the pistons end up being for deck height?

I measured +.003 (front & rear) with no base gasket, base gasket is .014, head gasket is .030, so that makes the net squish .041.

so right at -.018 in the hole .. The numbers will vary  . I would machine those cylinders to zero deck that set up. With increased comp ratio and piston in the hole more prone to detonation has been my experience , it can be tuned out but your leaving power on the table for sure .


I would also add that I plan to measure the cylinder base to liner , IF you look closely at the liner it is not flush with the base of the cylinder , I have not measure it yet with something super accurate just a basic dial caliper but but there is a step down . I do not have an S&S here at this moment but maybe bob can check that .  Not sure why that is either .

[Billy]

where did the pistons end up being for deck height?

I measured +.003 (front & rear) with no base gasket, base gasket is .014, head gasket is .030, so that makes the net squish .041.

so right at -.018 in the hole .. The numbers will vary  . I would machine those cylinders to zero deck that set up. With increased comp ratio and piston in the hole more prone to detonation has been my experience , it can be tuned out but your leaving power on the table for sure .


I would also add that I plan to measure the cylinder base to liner , IF you look closely at the liner it is not flush with the base of the cylinder , I have not measure it yet with something super accurate just a basic dial caliper but but there is a step down . I do not have an S&S here at this moment but maybe bob can check that .  Not sure why that is either .

I'm not sure where you're getting .018 in the hole, the pistons are .003 proud with no base gasket in place, with a .014 base and a .030 hg I get .041 squish. I shoot for .035-.040 squish on a street motor in a bagger with 93 octane readily available.

I'll check the base to liner. Thanks

[HD/Wrench]

Sorry I missed the + on the out of the hole .  I shoot for zero or very close .  What I have seen though is the case height is not standard . Cylinder is but case is not.. I have 3 124 right now in the shop torn down and I used the same cylinder same piston on all 3 . Worst .015 in the hole best .005 HA HA have to love lack of QC  My numbers are with base taken into the equation .

[No Cents]

   jfyi...I did check the cylinders that came with the Fuel Moto 124 kit that Randy is installing on his customers bike.
They did have the machine markings in the center of the slot on top of both cylinders.

[BVHOG]

   jfyi...I did check the cylinders that came with the Fuel Moto 124 kit that Randy is installing on his customers bike.
They did have the machine markings in the center of the slot on top of both cylinders.

Hmm, must be an early kit, or 'that company' in Viola WI is now selling Daytona brand.

[Buglet]

   Being that company is a distributor for the Dayton brand is would assume the sell there parts or maybe there using it on their own bikes.

[alexobelix]

Can those cylinders be used out of the box or do they have to be hohned prior to instal?

Can somebody give further infos for the wiseco pistons that can be used according to the Drag Spec. catalogue (part# 0903-1554) ? They have 11.0:1 compression but what head- and basegasket is assumed for this specification?

THX 

[Nastytls]

Can those cylinders be used out of the box or do they have to be hohned prior to instal?

Can somebody give further infos for the wiseco pistons that can be used according to the Drag Spec. catalogue (part# 0903-1554) ? They have 11.0:1 compression but what head- and basegasket is assumed for this specification?

THX

I was wondering that too. Can you just buy the off the shelf "black edition" 4.250 pistons through Drag and drop them in these cylinders?

[Don D]

Just a general comment as I haven't had my hands on these specific M8 cylinders yet. Cylinders are finished honed to size and pistons have the proper designed in clearance, YMMV. The beauty of the KB forged standard pistons, they are .001 OS or at least many of them are not sure about the M8 versions. A good honing job with plates on a power stroker can always do a better job than a mass production piece. Even with .001 to play with they can be improved IME. Seasoned cylinders better yet.

[BVHOG]

Just a general comment as I haven't had my hands on these specific M8 cylinders yet. Cylinders are finished honed to size and pistons have the proper designed in clearance, YMMV. The beauty of the KB forged standard pistons, they are .001 OS or at least many of them are not sure about the M8 versions. A good honing job with plates on a power stroker can always do a better job than a mass production piece. Even with .001 to play with they can be improved IME. Seasoned cylinders better yet.

There are a couple guys that have the super duty Mil 8 pistons already but they probably won't be done with a production run till June. I have 20 sets on order now.