March 28, 2024, 09:49:45 AM

News:

For advertising inquiries or help with registration or other issues, you may contact us by email at help@harleytechtalk.com


Help with stalling

Started by misfitJason, June 26, 2019, 07:54:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

misfitJason

Help me figure out my problem here because I can't figure it out.
Bike is a custom built softail that I built. I built it with an oem 80 inch evo and up until about a month or two ago it had no problems. I recently bought a brand new s&s v111 and swapped it into the bike. Carb is a super e (same one that I ran on the 80 inch) with a 32 intermediate and 78 main. No adjustable air bleed. I have about three hundred miles on the motor as I type.
The ignition is a dyna S set appropriately for this motor.
I have confirmed I do not have an intake leak and am using all of the appropriate hardware for this carb and motor.
The motor runs excellently except it stalls every so often on decel and sometimes will stall at idle. At any type of acceleration it has no issues and runs strong. When it stalls it coughs. The idle air mixture (whether rich or lean) doesn't make a difference on the stalling. After it stalls I can start her right back up.
None of these problems existed before he motor swap with all the same parts. I have since rebuilt the carb and changed the coil with no difference. My next thoughts are my mechanical advance (although it turns free and easily) or possibly there is crap in my tanks causing a issue with gas feed. Again I am running the same parts that I was with no problems before.
The spark plugs look good as far as the mixture goes. I even replaced the plug wires. No difference.
Any suggestions that you guys have I would appreciate. Thanks in advance.
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

thumper 823

You jumped 30 cubic inches,  your AFR is going to be lean of you left everything the same .
I sound like a broken record,- but the best tool I have ever bought is the AEM AFR unit.
It takes the guesswork out RIGHT NOW.
Installed you will instantly see what is going on.
Or just start guessing  and  move it all up an about two notches
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Burnout

That is a poor choice of ignition for such a fine motor.
And I believe your problem is ignition related.
The DynaS retains the problematic centrifugal advance mechanism and will not run a high output coil on the street.
It is not an electronic ignition it is a points replacement system that has no current limiting protection no dwell control no provisions for a VOES.

I would use at the least an Ultima Single fire Kit $175 on eBay
A step better would be a Dyna 2000I , S&S HI-4N, or a Daytona Twin Tec. Few if any of the other systems offered are on par with these 4.
These modules are all programmable, if the built in curves don't work for your application, they all have select-able curves, rev limiters, soft start, dwell control, current limiting protection and support VOES

I would also add a VOES to the install all of any of the 4 ignitions mentioned, a VOES is like a vacuum advance and adds fuel economy fuel mileage and eases starting.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

thumper 823

The great thing with Daytona TT is they will answer the phone in English
and actually, help you should you encounter a problem.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Deye76

I would start at the petcock, fuel line (routing) are they large enough, and is the screen on the petcock clean?
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

MikeL

Dyna S single fire using the green or black coils with a good quality flyweight assembly should work well all day long. Make sure the wires going to and from the ignition system didn't get hurt in the engine swap.
S&S super E & G carbs at times have a mind of their own. I always use their quick tune guide, spent lots of time guessing on adjustments till I found the guide. https://www.sscycle.com/tech-info/instructions-data/carb-quick-guide
Check the fuel flow real good. You must have drained the tank to remove you may have upset something "debris". Also check the fill cap make sure it can displace air. Maybe try riding with the cap loose.


                                                                                                        MIKE

BKACHE

First thing I would check is the drain plug at the bottom of the 'E' carb.
See if any 'little pieces' of anything are in the bottom of the bowl that may clog the jets.
Dan

misfitJason

The carb is clean and I checked it during Motor install and just had it rebuilt with no change. A shop did the rebuild.

I tore into a couple of things.
















The fuel line was new when I changed the motor.  It still does it no matter where I route the line. The mechanical advance looks good and moves free.

The cam seal is leaking a little. Will eventually have to change that out.  All of the wires coming from the ignition module are intact and good.

That little black boot on the plunger looks like this when I took the picture.  I can't remember from memory if it's supposed to be all the way up or not. That could be a possibility.

The butterfly on the carb is nice and tight and not loose.

I don't have time to check the petcock screen or tanks.  There could be some crap in there.  I would also like to run a compression test on the motor when I take the tanks off to check them for debris. But I'll have to unplug the acrs. Can anybody think of anything else or see anything that jumps out at you?
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

MikeL

Is there a vacuum port on that carb??? Looks like there is 1 and it appears open. If not how old is the carb? maybe the throttle shaft bores are worn and sucking air.


                                                                                                        MIKE

misfitJason

Mikel

There are two vacuum ports on the manifold but they are capped off
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

misfitJason

I tried something over the past couple of day. Here are the results.

I retarded the timing. It made the bike sluggish and did not help on the stalling issue.

Today when I rode to work, I advanced the timing a little. It did not stall on me. My revs did hang up a little when letting off the gas but that's probably because I didn't change the idle mixture to a happy place and had it rich. I adjusted it when I got to work. We shall see on the ride home.
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Mule

A 111 needs a super G not an E jetted for an 80 cubic inch motor...

Burnout

Quote from: misfitJason on June 30, 2019, 06:30:36 AM
I tried something over the past couple of day. Here are the results.

I retarded the timing. It made the bike sluggish and did not help on the stalling issue.

Today when I rode to work, I advanced the timing a little. It did not stall on me. My revs did hang up a little when letting off the gas but that's probably because I didn't change the idle mixture to a happy place and had it rich. I adjusted it when I got to work. We shall see on the ride home.

Idle was hanging probably because the advance springs are too stiff or the advance mech is sticky.
Can't say anything good about a centrifugal advance.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

misfitJason

Quote from: Mule on June 30, 2019, 07:30:15 AM
A 111 needs a super G not an E jetted for an 80 cubic inch motor...

It's the carb that comes and is recommended for the motor with appropriate jets as recommended by s&s for this motor
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Mule

June 30, 2019, 03:14:13 PM #14 Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 03:37:38 PM by Mule
Whatever you say man! My 111 had a G
super e (same one that I ran on the 80 inch) with a 32 intermediate and 78 main

BKACHE

I had a similar issue a year ago.
When I took the intermediate jet out I cleaned the 4 emulsifier holes above the jet internal restriction. This was the only thing I did between runs and it was night and day.
At higher speeds they do not come into play but if some varnish is built up on them the slow idle can restrict the vaporization. At least that seems to be my experience.
One more thing to try. The wife had a needle that was the right size in the pin ball.
Don't tell her.
Dan

dsvracer

what rpm does the bike idle at ??  consider raising the idle a touch to help from stalling ??  the idle is not usually affected by the ignition, or the advance weight system. imo if it has an idle problem then it is a carb problem.

Mule

 cough and stall Still sounds like a lean condition to me, if I was jetting a carb for a 111 ,I would start with a 36 and a .100 main. I would rather be a little fat vs lean... but everyone has their own opinion

Ironheadmike

Is the tank vent or filler cap vent plugged . You have a picture of your accelerator pump . But what do you have the fuel/air mixture set at ? I know you said that you don't have a mixture screw but all  carbs have one .

david lee

Quote from: Ironheadmike on July 02, 2019, 10:05:01 AM
Is the tank vent or filler cap vent plugged . You have a picture of your accelerator pump . But what do you have the fuel/air mixture set at ? I know you said that you don't have a mixture screw but all  carbs have one .
thats right

Burnout

A V111 is not a high compression motor and in my experience just because the motor size increases does not mean a huge jetting change.

And a 32 / 78 is already on the rich side. Unless you have a crap exhaust system on it that should be very close.

With the motor fully warmed up 30+ miles Hot oil tank, turn the mixture screw in until the motor slows/misfires, then turn it out very slowly (1/8 turn is a significant change) until the motor speeds up. This is your lean best Idle. To check your intermediate jet size shut the motor off and count how many turns the idle mix screw is out from the lean best setting.

I'm betting the centrifugal advance is falling off as the RPM drops and it's not happy with the timing. Or you just got a lousy DynaS, there's no way to test them other than installing a decent ignition that does not use a centrifugal advance.

Pouring fuel into the motor will just contaminate the oil and cause premature wear.

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

misfitJason

With the advanced timing (by about two degrees) it has not stalled on me at all. However, it is breaking up just off of idle or at low rpms. Like it's missing. The acceleration is not as strong as the recommended timing. But it is waaaaaaay easier to start! 

So with a bit more timing she doesn't stall but is not as smooth off of idle. Any new suggestions with this new found info. Still think larger intermediate jet? I just realized that I never told you guys what exhaust I was running. It's a kerker supermeg 2-1
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

misfitJason

Quote from: Ironheadmike on July 02, 2019, 10:05:01 AM
Is the tank vent or filler cap vent plugged . You have a picture of your accelerator pump . But what do you have the fuel/air mixture set at ? I know you said that you don't have a mixture screw but all  carbs have one .

Vent cap moves freely on the right side of the bike. It's a split tank and the other side cap is not vented. Idle air screw is one and a half turns out
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Burnout

Another down side of a Dyna S I did not mention is that it will not run a high output coil on the street, it needs a 5 ohm coil for street use.

A High Output coil has a primary resistance of 3 ohms or even less and will put out significantly higher spark voltage.

Hairballing it for example a 5 ohm coil makes 20kv and a 3 ohm coil makes 40kv

This equates to the size of the plug gap you can use and that makes for a better burn by getting more fuel lit at the start of the burn.

This makes more power, is more efficient, requires less advance which in turn moves your tuning window away from detonation.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

MikeL

I have run 3 ohm green coils for years. The bike isn't my daily rider but it's been on a few trips over a hundred miles and I never had a problem. I did have problems with Chinese 5 ohm single fire coils with this Dyna S they would literately explode.
Isn't point ignition 3 ohm? And the Dyna S is a direct replacement for points.

                                                                                                       MIKE