Help with stalling

[misfitJason]

Help me figure out my problem here because I can't figure it out.
Bike is a custom built softail that I built. I built it with an oem 80 inch evo and up until about a month or two ago it had no problems. I recently bought a brand new s&s v111 and swapped it into the bike. Carb is a super e (same one that I ran on the 80 inch) with a 32 intermediate and 78 main. No adjustable air bleed. I have about three hundred miles on the motor as I type.
The ignition is a dyna S set appropriately for this motor.
I have confirmed I do not have an intake leak and am using all of the appropriate hardware for this carb and motor.
The motor runs excellently except it stalls every so often on decel and sometimes will stall at idle. At any type of acceleration it has no issues and runs strong. When it stalls it coughs. The idle air mixture (whether rich or lean) doesn't make a difference on the stalling. After it stalls I can start her right back up.
None of these problems existed before he motor swap with all the same parts. I have since rebuilt the carb and changed the coil with no difference. My next thoughts are my mechanical advance (although it turns free and easily) or possibly there is crap in my tanks causing a issue with gas feed. Again I am running the same parts that I was with no problems before.
The spark plugs look good as far as the mixture goes. I even replaced the plug wires. No difference.
Any suggestions that you guys have I would appreciate. Thanks in advance.

[thumper 823]

You jumped 30 cubic inches,  your AFR is going to be lean of you left everything the same .
I sound like a broken record,- but the best tool I have ever bought is the AEM AFR unit.
It takes the guesswork out RIGHT NOW.
Installed you will instantly see what is going on.
Or just start guessing  and  move it all up an about two notches

[Burnout]

That is a poor choice of ignition for such a fine motor.
And I believe your problem is ignition related.
The DynaS retains the problematic centrifugal advance mechanism and will not run a high output coil on the street.
It is not an electronic ignition it is a points replacement system that has no current limiting protection no dwell control no provisions for a VOES.

I would use at the least an Ultima Single fire Kit $175 on eBay
A step better would be a Dyna 2000I , S&S HI-4N, or a Daytona Twin Tec. Few if any of the other systems offered are on par with these 4.
These modules are all programmable, if the built in curves don't work for your application, they all have select-able curves, rev limiters, soft start, dwell control, current limiting protection and support VOES

I would also add a VOES to the install all of any of the 4 ignitions mentioned, a VOES is like a vacuum advance and adds fuel economy fuel mileage and eases starting.

[thumper 823]

The great thing with Daytona TT is they will answer the phone in English
and actually, help you should you encounter a problem.

[Deye76]

I would start at the petcock, fuel line (routing) are they large enough, and is the screen on the petcock clean?

[MikeL]

Dyna S single fire using the green or black coils with a good quality flyweight assembly should work well all day long. Make sure the wires going to and from the ignition system didn't get hurt in the engine swap.
S&S super E & G carbs at times have a mind of their own. I always use their quick tune guide, spent lots of time guessing on adjustments till I found the guide. https://www.sscycle.com/tech-info/instructions-data/carb-quick-guide
Check the fuel flow real good. You must have drained the tank to remove you may have upset something "debris". Also check the fill cap make sure it can displace air. Maybe try riding with the cap loose.


                                                                                                        MIKE

[BKACHE]

First thing I would check is the drain plug at the bottom of the 'E' carb.
See if any 'little pieces' of anything are in the bottom of the bowl that may clog the jets.

[misfitJason]

The carb is clean and I checked it during Motor install and just had it rebuilt with no change. A shop did the rebuild.

I tore into a couple of things.
















The fuel line was new when I changed the motor.  It still does it no matter where I route the line. The mechanical advance looks good and moves free.

The cam seal is leaking a little. Will eventually have to change that out.  All of the wires coming from the ignition module are intact and good.

That little black boot on the plunger looks like this when I took the picture.  I can't remember from memory if it's supposed to be all the way up or not. That could be a possibility.

The butterfly on the carb is nice and tight and not loose.

I don't have time to check the petcock screen or tanks.  There could be some crap in there.  I would also like to run a compression test on the motor when I take the tanks off to check them for debris. But I'll have to unplug the acrs. Can anybody think of anything else or see anything that jumps out at you?

[MikeL]

Is there a vacuum port on that carb??? Looks like there is 1 and it appears open. If not how old is the carb? maybe the throttle shaft bores are worn and sucking air.


                                                                                                        MIKE

[misfitJason]

Mikel

There are two vacuum ports on the manifold but they are capped off

[misfitJason]

I tried something over the past couple of day. Here are the results.

I retarded the timing. It made the bike sluggish and did not help on the stalling issue.

Today when I rode to work, I advanced the timing a little. It did not stall on me. My revs did hang up a little when letting off the gas but that's probably because I didn't change the idle mixture to a happy place and had it rich. I adjusted it when I got to work. We shall see on the ride home.

[Mule]

A 111 needs a super G not an E jetted for an 80 cubic inch motor...

[Burnout]

I tried something over the past couple of day. Here are the results.

I retarded the timing. It made the bike sluggish and did not help on the stalling issue.

Today when I rode to work, I advanced the timing a little. It did not stall on me. My revs did hang up a little when letting off the gas but that's probably because I didn't change the idle mixture to a happy place and had it rich. I adjusted it when I got to work. We shall see on the ride home.

Idle was hanging probably because the advance springs are too stiff or the advance mech is sticky.
Can't say anything good about a centrifugal advance.

[misfitJason]

A 111 needs a super G not an E jetted for an 80 cubic inch motor...

It's the carb that comes and is recommended for the motor with appropriate jets as recommended by s&s for this motor

[Mule]

Whatever you say man! My 111 had a G
super e (same one that I ran on the 80 inch) with a 32 intermediate and 78 main

[BKACHE]

I had a similar issue a year ago.
When I took the intermediate jet out I cleaned the 4 emulsifier holes above the jet internal restriction. This was the only thing I did between runs and it was night and day.
At higher speeds they do not come into play but if some varnish is built up on them the slow idle can restrict the vaporization. At least that seems to be my experience.
One more thing to try. The wife had a needle that was the right size in the pin ball.
Don't tell her.

[dsvracer]

what rpm does the bike idle at ??  consider raising the idle a touch to help from stalling ??  the idle is not usually affected by the ignition, or the advance weight system. imo if it has an idle problem then it is a carb problem.

[Mule]

 cough and stall Still sounds like a lean condition to me, if I was jetting a carb for a 111 ,I would start with a 36 and a .100 main. I would rather be a little fat vs lean... but everyone has their own opinion

[Ironheadmike]

Is the tank vent or filler cap vent plugged . You have a picture of your accelerator pump . But what do you have the fuel/air mixture set at ? I know you said that you don't have a mixture screw but all  carbs have one .

[david lee]

Is the tank vent or filler cap vent plugged . You have a picture of your accelerator pump . But what do you have the fuel/air mixture set at ? I know you said that you don't have a mixture screw but all  carbs have one .

thats right

[Burnout]

A V111 is not a high compression motor and in my experience just because the motor size increases does not mean a huge jetting change.

And a 32 / 78 is already on the rich side. Unless you have a crap exhaust system on it that should be very close.

With the motor fully warmed up 30+ miles Hot oil tank, turn the mixture screw in until the motor slows/misfires, then turn it out very slowly (1/8 turn is a significant change) until the motor speeds up. This is your lean best Idle. To check your intermediate jet size shut the motor off and count how many turns the idle mix screw is out from the lean best setting.

I'm betting the centrifugal advance is falling off as the RPM drops and it's not happy with the timing. Or you just got a lousy DynaS, there's no way to test them other than installing a decent ignition that does not use a centrifugal advance.

Pouring fuel into the motor will just contaminate the oil and cause premature wear.

[misfitJason]

With the advanced timing (by about two degrees) it has not stalled on me at all. However, it is breaking up just off of idle or at low rpms. Like it's missing. The acceleration is not as strong as the recommended timing. But it is waaaaaaay easier to start! 

So with a bit more timing she doesn't stall but is not as smooth off of idle. Any new suggestions with this new found info. Still think larger intermediate jet? I just realized that I never told you guys what exhaust I was running. It's a kerker supermeg 2-1

[misfitJason]

Is the tank vent or filler cap vent plugged . You have a picture of your accelerator pump . But what do you have the fuel/air mixture set at ? I know you said that you don't have a mixture screw but all  carbs have one .

Vent cap moves freely on the right side of the bike. It's a split tank and the other side cap is not vented. Idle air screw is one and a half turns out

[Burnout]

Another down side of a Dyna S I did not mention is that it will not run a high output coil on the street, it needs a 5 ohm coil for street use.

A High Output coil has a primary resistance of 3 ohms or even less and will put out significantly higher spark voltage.

Hairballing it for example a 5 ohm coil makes 20kv and a 3 ohm coil makes 40kv

This equates to the size of the plug gap you can use and that makes for a better burn by getting more fuel lit at the start of the burn.

This makes more power, is more efficient, requires less advance which in turn moves your tuning window away from detonation.

[MikeL]

I have run 3 ohm green coils for years. The bike isn't my daily rider but it's been on a few trips over a hundred miles and I never had a problem. I did have problems with Chinese 5 ohm single fire coils with this Dyna S they would literately explode.
Isn't point ignition 3 ohm? And the Dyna S is a direct replacement for points.

                                                                                                       MIKE

[Mule]

Pouring fuel into the motor will just contaminate the oil and cause premature wear.

I agree with that ,  Cough and stall is usually a lean condition when the motor reaches operating temperature , yeah you can tune around it and change things up but lean is lean
Just my opinion ...

[JW113]

Isn't point ignition 3 ohm? And the Dyna S is a direct replacement for points.

I believe points ignition is typically 5 ohm coils.

-JW

[misfitJason]

I am running a dual fire dyna S which uses a 5 ohm coil

[capn]

If you used the same carb and manifold off the old motor you could have intake leaks.That will make it seem lean and also make it cough and stall. I run a 120 evo and that happened to me.

[misfitJason]

 :koolaid:I've got a new mechanical advance coming.  I also got a new bellows seal and will check the throttle shaft while apart. I am going to start with the carb and bellows seal to see if that was the problem. Then I will move onto the mechanical advance so I can pinpoint it

[cheech]

That is a poor choice of ignition for such a fine motor.
And I believe your problem is ignition related.
The DynaS retains the problematic centrifugal advance mechanism and will not run a high output coil on the street.
It is not an electronic ignition it is a points replacement system that has no current limiting protection no dwell control no provisions for a VOES.

I would use at the least an Ultima Single fire Kit $175 on eBay
A step better would be a Dyna 2000I , S&S HI-4N, or a Daytona Twin Tec. Few if any of the other systems offered are on par with these 4.
These modules are all programmable, if the built in curves don't work for your application, they all have select-able curves, rev limiters, soft start, dwell control, current limiting protection and support VOES

I would also add a VOES to the install all of any of the 4 ignitions mentioned, a VOES is like a vacuum advance and adds fuel economy fuel mileage and eases starting.

2019, New S&S V111. And a mechanical advance ignition. 

[Burnout]

There seem to be many out there who feel that a Dyna S is the next best thing to sliced bread.

The same ones who think a VOES is an emissions thing.

You can lead a horse to water, but some water ain't worth drinkin' and some horses can't tell the difference.

Again just to be sure my above sarcasm is making the trip, this water is pure.
"a Dyna S is NOT an Electronic Ignition, it is a points replacement system that retains 98% of the problems of a points system."  [spit]

[misfitJason]

This is my game plan when I get back from vacation

I also ordered up a replacement s&s rubber fuel line. I am going to in a specified order replace some parts in this order so I can see if one of these fixes it:

Scope the cylinders and run a compression check once one of the tanks halves are off. Then go from there.
Check petcock screen and debris in tanks
Replace the bellows seal and fuel line
Check throttle shaft and idle screw
Replace intermediate jet with a little bit richer.
Replace mechanical advance or replace ignition for dyna 2ki

[misfitJason]

Back from vacation and started playing with a couple of the parts I ordered that had arrived.

I put some new vacuum plugs on the manifold.  I also borrowed a new mechanical advance to see if that makes a difference. I won't be able to ride it until tomorrow morning. I did put the timing back to where it was so I can see if I still have a problem.

I pulled the mixture screw. I didn't notice a o ring anywhere for that.  But it didn't appear buggered up.

If these don't make a difference My next step is a replacement fuel line and check the petcock screen and possible debris in tanks. Enjoy the pics.

[Burnout]

Are your spark plugs black?

I'm thinking you may be on the rich side for the low speed and the lousey spark timing is what is causing the spitting back.
It seems you have already proven it is timing related, as a spark timing change cured the spitting.
Now you are complaining of a off idle stumble, if the low speed jet is too big and you have a rich idle,
when you open the throttle and the transfer port is exposed this pours even more fuel in,
then the accelerator pump dumps in even more. Now you have a rich stumble.

First off turn down the accelerator pump, You can turn it back up later if needed.
Make your tuning decisions with it off, it can cause problems masking a lean condition or overload it with fuel.

If your plugs are black they are not going to fire right (on the verge of fouling) and it shows you have too rich of a low speed circuit.
Todays fuel should not leave any color on a new plug, it will appear to have a light grey coating of ash when right.
Make sure you are using the heat range called for for that motor (stock EVO is a great starting place since you are not high compression or running nitrous)
Autolite 4265 is a great EVO plug and available at most any parts store. Extended tip and the right heat range.
Avoid any exotic plugs as they can cause problems, try them later if you have disposable income, get it tuned right first!

[misfitJason]

Update:

None of the replacement parts seemed to make a difference. So I started playing with jets.

I installed a .33 intermediate and that cured all my off idle hesitation and hinting that the bike was doing. I literally just got back from a ride for about five miles and she did not stall out on me but it wasn't really far enough to tell as of yet.  I am going to ride her in the morning and see. It might even be worth trying out a 34 intermediate.  I did drop my main down to a 76 and now she seems to pull better top end. 

If she continues to stall I am going to try and take video of her doing it to aide in the process

[wfolarry]

There should be an o ring on that screw. Check to see if it's in the carb. if it's not you need to get one.

[misfitJason]

There should be an o ring on that screw. Check to see if it's in the carb. if it's not you need to get one.

S&S told me the old carbs (like I have) don't use an Oring on the screw

[misfitJason]

well, she still cuts out. I rode her to work today and pulled the plugs. Plugs are black and obviously too rich Looks like I still have an air leak somewhere. Back to the drawing board

[david lee]

There should be an o ring on that screw. Check to see if it's in the carb. if it's not you need to get one.

S&S told me the old carbs (like I have) don't use an Oring on the screw

i think your right. im going the check my b series

[misfitJason]

Here is the solution to the thread.

Had a small intake leak.  Sorted hat out and she still stalled. Tracked it down to a worn mechanical advance. Long story short is she does not like a dual fire ignition. Will be switching to a dyna 2000i or a Twin Tec