HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: Hilly13 on October 12, 2023, 08:50:39 PMSeriously but, being an 05 it's an easy convert to narrow bands, tuner of choice, could even whack the HD wideband kit on it then if you wanted(and can find one). Tuning to the ninth degree on the road is risky, life, limb, license, do you know anyone that can tune properly with Tmax apart from Max(it can be done) not many dyno fella's want to play that game these days.
Whatever you do I know it will kick behind, interested to see how it all turns out in the end.

I own 49% of a DJ 250i and can tune TMAX or any other box. It is not rocket science, but on that note, there are things in space that originated on my desktop.

Quote from: turboprop on October 13, 2023, 04:53:02 AM

Quote from: Hilly13 on October 12, 2023, 08:50:39 PMSeriously but, being an 05 it's an easy convert to narrow bands, tuner of choice, could even whack the HD wideband kit on it then if you wanted(and can find one). Tuning to the ninth degree on the road is risky, life, limb, license, do you know anyone that can tune properly with Tmax apart from Max(it can be done) not many dyno fella's want to play that game these days.
Whatever you do I know it will kick behind, interested to see how it all turns out in the end.

I own 49% of a DJ 250i and can tune TMAX or any other box. It is not rocket science, but on that note, there are things in space that originated on my desktop.

Hardly a challenge then 😁👍

Quote from: turboprop on October 12, 2023, 08:02:32 PM

Quote from: djl on October 12, 2023, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: djl on October 11, 2023, 04:59:33 PMCase will need boring but OEM pistons cylinders can be sleeved; MTC machined and sleeved mine for an all bore 107" motor a few years back. Hoban did my crank.

Need to correct previous post. The all bore 107 I built for my '02 FLHT was not a high compression build at 190ccp. The bike ran well 110HP/124TQ, not near what Turboprops build will put out but a lot of fun to ride.  Surprised some larger displacement M8s when they were first introduced.

I think you had your oem cylinders re-sleeved for your all bore 107. Is this correct?

Also, my high compression 107" will still have sub 210 CCP ( or near 210) as a result of the later intake closing of the RS647 cams.

Yes with JE pistons, Hoban crank.  First set was done by a machine shop recommended my Don Dorfman; he did the heads for this build.  That set failed after a few hundred miles; liner slipped on front cylinder.  Don made it righ by paying for the second set from MTC Engineering.  I had the original JE pistons from the Axtell kit that had failed but pistons were up to spec.  MTC sent the cylinders with a 4.080" bore so I could have them fitted to the JE 4.125" pistons.  Put several thousand agressive miles with no issues before I sold the bike; still have seller's remorse.  That motor backed up by the Twist Gear setup was fun to ride.  I set mine up at lower compression, 190+CCP.  That was a few years back before I learned I could build/run at 200+CCP with the right set up and tune.

I love the build plan. Over bore short stroke should be really quick to rev up. I've always like the 4" and 4.387" stroke over the longer stuff. My M8 114" feels like it takes forever to rev up.

Curious what kind of power should be expected from this recipe? Obviously not many all bore 107" stuff on this forum to reference.

For a name, how about Project Rope-A-Dope. May Project Rope-A-RUB. I'm sure your FXR's are going to be sitting in the shop thinking you lost your mind with the bagger on the lift.

Zach

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Quote from: biggzed on October 16, 2023, 02:49:43 PMI love the build plan. Over bore short stroke should be really quick to rev up. I've always like the 4" and 4.387" stroke over the longer stuff. My M8 114" feels like it takes forever to rev up.

Curious what kind of power should be expected from this recipe? Obviously not many all bore 107" stuff on this forum to reference.

For a name, how about Project Rope-A-Dope. May Project Rope-A-RUB. I'm sure your FXR's are going to be sitting in the shop thinking you lost your mind with the bagger on the lift.

Zach

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Not my idea. I got this from Ron Dickey of Axtell. He ran an all bore 107 in his bagger for many years. To say that engine was highly refined/developed would be an understatement as he owned an engine dyno that was tooled up for Harley engines. Ron ran a different cam and oem length connecting rods than what I have. Should be a lot of fun. The bagger guys that I sometimes ride with are going to hate it.

For those that have looked at this thread, this is a perfect example of a low-cost hot rod, sleeper engine combination. Take away the 8" rods and the cost comes way down. I think the largest single line item cost will be the tuner or possibly the service to the oem 4" flywheels.

Quote from: turboprop on October 16, 2023, 03:55:19 PM

Quote from: biggzed on October 16, 2023, 02:49:43 PMI love the build plan. Over bore short stroke should be really quick to rev up. I've always like the 4" and 4.387" stroke over the longer stuff. My M8 114" feels like it takes forever to rev up.

Curious what kind of power should be expected from this recipe? Obviously not many all bore 107" stuff on this forum to reference.

For a name, how about Project Rope-A-Dope. May Project Rope-A-RUB. I'm sure your FXR's are going to be sitting in the shop thinking you lost your mind with the bagger on the lift.

Zach

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Not my idea. I got this from Ron Dickey of Axtell. He ran an all bore 107 in his bagger for many years. To say that engine was highly refined/developed would be an understatement as he owned an engine dyno that was tooled up for Harley engines. Ron ran a different cam and oem length connecting rods than what I have. Should be a lot of fun. The bagger guys that I sometimes ride with are going to hate it.

Sorry if I missed it, but what kind of output you thinking here? 130hp? What kind of kits are these buddies M8's? A home run 107" is a real fun motor I've done a few but will it beat these fancy M8's or just close the gap?

Quote from: FLDavetrain on October 16, 2023, 04:44:36 PM

Quote from: turboprop on October 16, 2023, 03:55:19 PM

Quote from: biggzed on October 16, 2023, 02:49:43 PMI love the build plan. Over bore short stroke should be really quick to rev up. I've always like the 4" and 4.387" stroke over the longer stuff. My M8 114" feels like it takes forever to rev up.

Curious what kind of power should be expected from this recipe? . Obviously not many all bore 107" stuff on this forum to reference.

For a name, how about Project Rope-A-Dope. May Project Rope-A-RUB. I'm sure your FXR's are going to be sitting in the shop thinking you lost your mind with the bagger on the lift.

Zach

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Not my idea. I got this from Ron Dickey of Axtell. He ran an all bore 107 in his bagger for many years. To say that engine was highly refined/developed would be an understatement as he owned an engine dyno that was tooled up for Harley engines. Ron ran a different cam and oem length connecting rods than what I have. Should be a lot of fun. The bagger guys that I sometimes ride with are going to hate it.

Sorry if I missed it, but what kind of output you thinking here? 130hp? No Idea

What kind of kits are these buddies M8's? Silly dealer stage stuff.

A home run 107" is a real fun motor I've done a few but will it beat these fancy M8's or just close the gap? I have no doubt in the ability of this engine to seriously mess with their minds. Refer to my first post. It must look like an unmodified stock TC88. Going to talk up some fancy lifters for a few weeks and then bam. Would be hilarious if I drove them to swap out for some expensive lifters. Maybe even talk up some extra zinc additive for the oil. Hahahaha

     I love it.  Practice your poker face.

How about a "what if" engine analyses Turboprop? I made an all bore 107" the other day when you posted about your new project. I've been fine tuning it as best as I can. The exhaust is always the hard part with these exercises. I tried defining a 2/2 crossover with stock lengths. I used some OEM TC head cores that I have some numbers on, 2.000 intake and 1.630 exhaust. 11.5 compression, RS647 cams, and assumed you'll sneak a larger TB in there.

I think it's fairly realistic. I do think the lower part of the RPM's will see a little better torque, but this is how it comes out.



You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

Quote from: Ohio HD on October 16, 2023, 07:14:48 PMHow about a "what if" engine analyses Turboprop? I made an all bore 107" the other day when you posted about your new project. I've been fine tuning it as best as I can. The exhaust is always the hard part with these exercises. I tried defining a 2/2 crossover with stock lengths. I used some OEM TC head cores that I have some numbers on, 2.000 intake and 1.630 exhaust. 11.5 compression, RS647 cams, and assumed you'll sneak a larger TB in there.

I think it's fairly realistic. I do think the lower part of the RPM's will see a little better torque, but this is how it comes out.



You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

This is really cool. Thank you for doing this. I have the dyno sheet from Ron Dickeys all bore 107" but it does not compare apples to apples as it was done on his engine dyno using very different software and load brake.

I plan to talk with Baisley about what he can do with the existing TB, but am prepared to bite the bullet and source a larger unit if needed. Not talked with him about the heads and pistons yet, but am fully prepared for first night in prison pain. 

Put a call out on here in Market Place using general terms on your wish list.  You may get an assortment of responses you can choose from or consider at least. Even to bounce off Dan or Ron if/when you talk to them.  Many of us have some pretty good stuff in the cupboard. 

I built a 107 about a year and half ago..

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engine-mechanical-topics/1378373-116-blew-107-rebuild.html

Doubt it will ever go to the dyno.  Still it's a fun bike.

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on October 18, 2023, 12:36:32 PMI built a 107 about a year and half ago..

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engine-mechanical-topics/1378373-116-blew-107-rebuild.html

Doubt it will ever go to the dyno.  Still it's a fun bike.

I think I sort of gave you the idea for that build.

Quote from: turboprop on October 18, 2023, 02:09:42 PM

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on October 18, 2023, 12:36:32 PMI built a 107 about a year and half ago..

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engine-mechanical-topics/1378373-116-blew-107-rebuild.html

Doubt it will ever go to the dyno.  Still it's a fun bike.

I think I sort of gave you the idea for that build.

You mentioned s&s or chrome werks header. The fullsac and fuel Moto header can be retrofitted to the early models and use the stock heat shields (granted they are late model stock heat shields). Use a set of screaming Eagle slip ons with fullsac baffles now you have the appearance of nothing aftermarket... shhhhhhh!!!

Quote from: 838 on November 16, 2023, 09:07:55 AM

Quote from: turboprop on October 18, 2023, 02:09:42 PM

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on October 18, 2023, 12:36:32 PMI built a 107 about a year and half ago..

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engine-mechanical-topics/1378373-116-blew-107-rebuild.html

Doubt it will ever go to the dyno.  Still it's a fun bike.

I think I sort of gave you the idea for that build.

You mentioned s&s or chrome werks header. The fullsac and fuel Moto header can be retrofitted to the early models and use the stock heat shields (granted they are late model stock heat shields). Use a set of screaming Eagle slip ons with fullsac baffles now you have the appearance of nothing aftermarket... shhhhhhh!!!

The headers I am referring to look just like the late model cross under exhaust bagger header, but they are made for earlier models and look very much oem-ish.

As I've only ridden under square or square engined Harleys, is the difference riding an over square engine noticeable?

I understand they're gonna spool up quicker and alike so curious how they feel. My only basis for comparison is a sports bike.

Quote from: Arseclown on November 16, 2023, 02:58:14 PMAs I've only ridden under square or square engined Harleys, is the difference riding an over square engine noticeable?

I understand they're gonna spool up quicker and alike so curious how they feel. My only basis for comparison is a sports bike.

Lots of reasons for various applications. In my case I am cheap and do not want to spend the coin on a stroker crank. I also like the idea of a slower piston to wall speed for any given RPM. OEM cylinders sleeved for a 4-⅛" bore are reality inexpensive. I get the cubes and slower piston speeds for a really low price. The slower piston speed will also do wonders for the longevity of the pistons. Yea, I could go a different direction with an over square 107" but it is a bagger, so why. Inexpensive and longevity is what this is about.

"Yea, I could go a different direction with an over square 107" but it is a bagger, so why"

Reminds me when I had a 113" in my Roadglide, friend said it was like putting a Keith Black hemi in a garbage truck. That was just mean.

Quote from: Deye76 on November 16, 2023, 04:52:02 PM"Yea, I could go a different direction with an over square 107" but it is a bagger, so why"

Reminds me when I had a 113" in my Roadglide, friend said it was like putting a Keith Black hemi in a garbage truck. That was just mean.

We all see the baggers being hopped up. I get it, just not for me.

You don't have to be fastest, but you do have to beat your friends!

Quote from: Hossamania on November 17, 2023, 04:31:49 PMYou don't have to be fastest, but you do have to beat your friends!

I'm pretty sure that is your motto in life mate 😁

Quote from: Deye76 on November 16, 2023, 04:52:02 PM"Yea, I could go a different direction with an over square 107" but it is a bagger, so why"

Reminds me when I had a 113" in my Roadglide, friend said it was like putting a Keith Black hemi in a garbage truck. That was just mean.

I dunno about mean, it's pretty funny though 🤣

Quote from: Hilly13 on November 17, 2023, 08:39:14 PM

Quote from: Hossamania on November 17, 2023, 04:31:49 PMYou don't have to be fastest, but you do have to beat your friends!

I'm pretty sure that is your motto in life mate 😁

It kind of is!