Does anybody what Harley parts you need to convert from kick only to electric start/kick? Bike is a 68 shovelhead with a open belt drive primary,I would like to keep the bel but use an enclosed primary.
First off, you really don't want to fully enclose a belt drive primary since too much heat isn't good for belt life. Your clutch shell needs a ring gear so that a starter drive can engage with it. You don't say what brand yours is so I'm not sure it'd be worth your while to try to weld one on or have it done, you might just want to go with a new kit like the BDL 61-41 SE-1. You'll need a 65-69 inner primary, a starter and drive assembly including the starter drive shaft or jackshaft assembly, a solenoid, a starter relay, the correct battery carrier, leads for the solenoid to starter and solenoid to battery, wiring to connect the solenoid to the relay and the relay to some sort of starter button and a cover of some sort for your primary. The stock 65-69 cover does not lend itself to this job since the derby cover is not removable so-as to add a vented one. You could also check out Tech Cycle. They have some nice kits that are't fully enclosed but include the electric start feature. HTH, Bill
Nicely done Bill. :up:
Bill:
:baby:
-JW
Quote from: billbuilds on September 12, 2019, 04:47:17 PM
First off, you really don't want to fully enclose a belt drive primary since too much heat isn't good for belt life. Your clutch shell needs a ring gear so that a starter drive can engage with it. You don't say what brand yours is so I'm not sure it'd be worth your while to try to weld one on or have it done, you might just want to go with a new kit like the BDL 61-41 SE-1. You'll need a 65-69 inner primary, a starter and drive assembly including the starter drive shaft or jackshaft assembly, a solenoid, a starter relay, the correct battery carrier, leads for the solenoid to starter and solenoid to battery, wiring to connect the solenoid to the relay and the relay to some sort of starter button and a cover of some sort for your primary. The stock 65-69 cover does not lend itself to this job since the derby cover is not removable so-as to add a vented one. You could also check out Tech Cycle. They have some nice kits that are't fully enclosed but include the electric start feature. HTH, Bill
Thanks great information
most people say heat build up inside an enclosed belt primary makes no difference to belt life
Quote from: david lee on September 14, 2019, 12:15:35 AM
most people say heat build up inside an enclosed belt primary makes no difference to belt life
Well... I guess I'm not "most people." And I take great pride in that.
I have been running a belt in a closed primary for 40 years and have gone through 3 belts in that time.
How could running cooler possibly hurt?
In the interest of learning something...
:SM:
What about the 65-69 years would prevent one from using 70 & later primary components? At least the inner/outer housings & starter.
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on September 14, 2019, 09:20:20 AM
In the interest of learning something...
:SM:
What about the 65-69 years would prevent one from using 70 & later primary components? At least the inner/outer housings & starter.
-JW
Going by my friends '65 Pan, the inner primary bolts differently to the crankcase than a cone motor and the starter jackshaft is shorter on the Pan as the crankshaft sprocket is closer to the crankcase without the alternator in the primary.
kinda matters which main shaft is used too , 65 up with the ears for the primary case
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on September 14, 2019, 04:45:33 AM
How could running cooler possibly hurt?
ive still got my same enclose primo belt for the last 30 yrs still in perfect condition. my hd mech said alignment and how throttle heavy on long rides would contribute to belt failure. but i have recently vented mine just for peace of mind
Quote from: bump on September 14, 2019, 04:22:17 AM
I have been running a belt in a closed primary for 40 years and have gone through 3 belts in that time.
Miles ridden, not time tells the tale. So is that like 40,000 miles per belt?
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 14, 2019, 09:08:27 PM
Quote from: bump on September 14, 2019, 04:22:17 AM
I have been running a belt in a closed primary for 40 years and have gone through 3 belts in that time.
Miles ridden, not time tells the tale. So is that like 40,000 miles per belt?
Well not 40,000 exactly but about that amount.
I imagine (but yes, could be wrong) most bikes with high mileage on primary belts have close to stock engines and ridden by adults :teeth:.
Quotemy hd mech said alignment and how throttle heavy on long rides would contribute to belt failure.
Have always heard this is truth. Alignment also has a lot to do with the amount of drag on your clutch and therefore the ease of finding neutral.
Sorry, I didn't mean to start a food fight
Quote from: bump on September 15, 2019, 02:40:15 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 14, 2019, 09:08:27 PM
Quote from: bump on September 14, 2019, 04:22:17 AM
I have been running a belt in a closed primary for 40 years and have gone through 3 belts in that time.
Miles ridden, not time tells the tale. So is that like 40,000 miles per belt?
Well not 40,000 exactly but about that amount.
So what I'm trying to understand is then the bike has 120,000 miles (roughly) in 40 years. That's an average of 3,000 miles a year, or 58 miles a week more or less. Depends on if ridden in winter months. A lot of heat wouldn't be built up in shorter riding intervals. And if in those 58 miles a week, the ride per day is stop and go 10 to 15 miles, not much heat at all. Even double that it's not much heat.
Where as if I guy gets out and rides 200 miles in a day, that sealed primary area will get very hot in there with no lube and a belts friction. Remember rear belt bikes are in the open air.
Quote from: joes bar and grill on September 15, 2019, 04:12:58 AM
Sorry, I didn't mean to start a food fight
Way to go, Joe! See what you did?
It's not you, it happens here every time. Why don't you post a question about aftermarket headlights, you'll really see some, ah, differing opinions.
what oil you running? ;0)
What ever oil my neighbor sets out on the street to recycle after he changes his oil.
-JW
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 15, 2019, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: bump on September 15, 2019, 02:40:15 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 14, 2019, 09:08:27 PM
Quote from: bump on September 14, 2019, 04:22:17 AM
I have been running a belt in a closed primary for 40 years and have gone through 3 belts in that time.
Miles ridden, not time tells the tale. So is that like 40,000 miles per belt?
Well not 40,000 exactly but about that amount.
So what I'm trying to understand is then the bike has 120,000 miles (roughly) in 40 years. That's an average of 3,000 miles a year, or 58 miles a week more or less. Depends on if ridden in winter months. A lot of heat wouldn't be built up in shorter riding intervals. And if in those 58 miles a week, the ride per day is stop and go 10 to 15 miles, not much heat at all. Even double that it's not much heat.
Where as if I guy gets out and rides 200 miles in a day, that sealed primary area will get very hot in there with no lube and a belts friction. Remember rear belt bikes are in the open air.
I was going to write up a rebuttal but I will just let it go you win.
Quote from: billbuilds on September 12, 2019, 04:47:17 PM
First off, you really don't want to fully enclose a belt drive primary since too much heat isn't good for belt life. Your clutch shell needs a ring gear so that a starter drive can engage with it. You don't say what brand yours is so I'm not sure it'd be worth your while to try to weld one on or have it done, you might just want to go with a new kit like the BDL 61-41 SE-1. You'll need a 65-69 inner primary, a starter and drive assembly including the starter drive shaft or jackshaft assembly, a solenoid, a starter relay, the correct battery carrier, leads for the solenoid to starter and solenoid to battery, wiring to connect the solenoid to the relay and the relay to some sort of starter button and a cover of some sort for your primary. The stock 65-69 cover does not lend itself to this job since the derby cover is not removable so-as to add a vented one. You could also check out Tech Cycle. They have some nice kits that are't fully enclosed but include the electric start feature. HTH, Bill
This really is a good summary.
Quote from: JW113 on September 14, 2019, 09:20:20 AM
In the interest of learning something...
:SM:
What about the 65-69 years would prevent one from using 70 & later primary components? At least the inner/outer housings & starter.
-JW
The boss for the jackshaft needle bearing on the 65-69 cover is basically flush with the gasket mating surfaxe. The 70-84 covers are different here; the boss is recessed around 3/8" or so from the gasket mating surface. If you were to take a 70-84 cover, remove the existing jackshaft needle bearing and weld on an extemsion to that boss so-as to make it flush with the gasket mating surface, press in a new bearing and you have a cover that will accept the shorter jackshaft of the 65-69 startwer drive and have a derby cover that can be vented. Have seen a well executed one for sale on the auction site though it was quite some tme ago.