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Cam swap after 150 miles - new lifters as well?

Started by Adam76, January 29, 2019, 03:26:55 AM

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Adam76

 Hello, 
Going to install some cams in my new 48.... it's only done 150 miles since brand new,  do I need to put new lifters in with the cam swap?
I know that normally with any cam change new lifters are required, but with such low miles...
The other thing is,  are the stock lifters up to the job?   I'm guessing probably not and I should switch out to S&S premium at the least?
Thanks

rigidthumper

Should be fine. Not much complaints about the lifters in XLs, they're usually slightly ticky, I'd change em every 50K just for peace of mind. Rockout rocker shaft inserts help.
1200s usually make ~75/75 with a pipe, hi flow & tune. What direction are you going?
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Adam76

Quote from: rigidthumper on January 29, 2019, 06:02:22 AM
Should be fine. Not much complaints about the lifters in XLs, they're usually slightly ticky, I'd change em every 50K just for peace of mind. Rockout rocker shaft inserts help.
1200s usually make ~75/75 with a pipe, hi flow & tune. What direction are you going?
Hey Robin,  thanks for the info.
Not sure it's going to make enough difference,  but waa going to put some cams in something like N8s or Hammer performance 560s but they need 10.5 compression to optimize..... so my plan was to hone the cylinders to fit a set of 10.5  pistons  KB or Wiseco.

Then a custom dyno tone with power vision tuner.

That's what I was thinking,  but not sure it's vast value for money?
Thanks

rigidthumper

 Both of those cams are much better 5500 and up, but how much time to you spend there, and are you willing to lose 10-15# at/below 3.5K (& some mid range punch)  for 10 horse at the top end? If you like the current powerband, and just want it higher, you could always change valve springs, add the 10.5 pistons,  and use the SE Performance II ( .585" lift xl cams).
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Adam76

Quote from: rigidthumper on January 30, 2019, 06:47:14 AM
Both of those cams are much better 5500 and up, but how much time to you spend there, and are you willing to lose 10-15# at/below 3.5K (& some mid range punch)  for 10 horse at the top end? If you like the current powerband, and just want it higher, you could always change valve springs, add the 10.5 pistons,  and use the SE Performance II ( .585" lift xl cams).
Thanks Rigid,
No I don't want to go through all that effort and expense to lose midrange punch.... a little down low maybe,  not midrange.

I hear the W grind is actually not a bad grind,  but I wanted to cam the motor anyway.
Once I go up to 10.5 pistons,  do I get stock size,  bolt them in and hope for the best?  Or slightly oversize like .010 and bore and hone to fit (obviously adding to the cost of project).

Also,  what's your thoughts on the SE 585  vs the SE 536?

Thanks

rigidthumper

585 beats the 536 everywhere except cost- no need to change springs with the 536
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Adam76

February 01, 2019, 06:00:52 PM #6 Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:39:16 AM by Adam76
Quote from: rigidthumper on February 01, 2019, 06:13:34 AM
585 beats the 536 everywhere except cost- no need to change springs with the 536
Thanks.  I wish I could find decent dyno charts showing both TQ & HP with these two SE cams in a late model 1200,   and the other cams on offer too.... all I can find is some HP comparisons that don't really tel you much about the overall picture.
CheersThanks Adam

aswracing

Here, take a look:



The 585's are the second line and the 536's are the last line.

The 585 grind is an emissions-legal grind, with a moderate 32 degrees of overlap (11 degree IVO + 21 degree EVC), dual-patterned a whopping 25 degrees to deal with emissions-legal exhaust systems (in other words it's got a very short intake duration as compared to it's exhaust duration). The intake close timing is 45 degrees, which is a middle-of-the road number that will work best in the 10:1 to 10.25:1 range.

The 536 grind on the other hand is a hot-rod cam, with a full 56 degrees of overlap (26 degree IVO + 30 degree EVC). It's dual-patterned a much more typical 10 degrees in favor of the exhaust. The intake close timing is 50 degrees, which is a hot street cam kind of number that will work best in the 10.5:1 to 10.8:1 range.

So you're really comparing a mild, emissions-legal street performance grind that's designed to work well with a restrictive emissions-legal exhaust, to a classic hot rod street grind.

I would not personally run the 536's at the stock compression ratio, it's too low. But beyond that, that grind can also cause piston to valve contact issues when used with stock pistons, due to it's relatively high .236 of exhaust TDC lift. Lots of guys have had that problem when using those cams with stock pistons and their smallish valve pockets, I'm not just speculating, I've seen it several times.


Rsw

Think I would heed aswracing very smart guy on the Sportys

Adam76

Quote from: aswracing on February 02, 2019, 07:40:30 AM
Here, take a look.
The 585's are the second line and the 536's are the last line.

The 585 grind is an emissions-legal grind, with a moderate 32 degrees of overlap (11 degree IVO + 21 degree EVC), dual-patterned a whopping 25 degrees to deal with emissions-legal exhaust systems (in other words it's got a very short intake duration as compared to it's exhaust duration). The intake close timing is 45 degrees, which is a middle-of-the road number that will work best in the 10:1 to 10.25:1 range.

The 536 grind on the other hand is a hot-rod cam, with a full 56 degrees of overlap (26 degree IVO + 30 degree EVC). It's dual-patterned a much more typical 10 degrees in favor of the exhaust. The intake close timing is 50 degrees, which is a hot street cam kind of number that will work best in the 10.5:1 to 10.8:1 range.

So you're really comparing a mild, emissions-legal street performance grind that's designed to work well with a restrictive emissions-legal exhaust, to a classic hot rod street grind..

Thanks Hammer.. I have emailed you and thanks to your advice have chosen an option that suits.

Thanks for sharing all the info here for us to learn. 

Adam76

Quote from: aswracing on February 02, 2019, 07:40:30 AM
Here, take a look.
The 585's are the second line and the 536's are the last line.

The 585 grind is an emissions-legal grind, with a moderate 32 degrees of overlap (11 degree IVO + 21 degree EVC), dual-patterned a whopping 25 degrees to deal with emissions-legal exhaust systems (in other words it's got a very short intake duration as compared to it's exhaust duration). The intake close timing is 45 degrees, which is a middle-of-the road number that will work best in the 10:1 to 10.25:1 range.

The 536 grind on the other hand is a hot-rod cam, with a full 56 degrees of overlap (26 degree IVO + 30 degree EVC). It's dual-patterned a much more typical 10 degrees in favor of the exhaust. The intake close timing is 50 degrees, which is a hot street cam kind of number that will work best in the 10.5:1 to 10.8:1 range.

So you're really comparing a mild, emissions-legal street performance grind that's designed to work well with a restrictive emissions-legal exhaust, to a classic hot rod street grind..

Thanks Hammer.. I have emailed you and thanks to your advice have chosen an option that suits.

Thanks for sharing all the info here for us to learn.