Cam vs temp question

[cmashark]

Between the 22x and the 475, would one run cooler (engine) than the other?I've rode bikes with both cams, but never got a measurement of the 475.
I like both cams.

[VDeuce]

Generally the earlier the intake close, the more compression = more heat.

[Ohio HD]

Based on some general cam timing properties, I'd say the S&S would run cooler. It has more overlap, and exhaust opens sooner. But not having experience with either, that's just my theory.

[cmashark]

That's where my thoughts are.  Seemed like when I had TCs, it was easy to sway engine temps 10 degrees or more by cam selection (changing cranking compression or static compression bleeding)

I liked the 107 with the 475.  It had a bit of a hot rod feel at 10.5:1.
The 117 with the 22x at 10.2:1 had a smoother power delivery and felt very tame (with lots of low end torque), but 70-75 in 6th gear (2700'ish rpm), in high 60 degree weather, produced 384 head temp and 350 engine temp.  Keep the speed down, 2200-2400 rpm, and these temps would fall to 368 and 33X, respectively. No power loss or real signs of sumping though.

I have a couple long data logs on the 117 with the 22x.  I think I'll order some parts tonight and see how the 117 turns out with the 475. The only hard part is finding some solid timing tables.  Wish me luck!

Chris

[To The Max]

This may not be the exact comparison you may need but. my friend has a 107 RG with a power vision , c r 460 air filter and street cannons , me a 107 softail with PV, s & s 475 air filter and modified standard muffler and we compared temps while we riding together. there was no real difference . since then I have upgraded to 11.1 and 117 and now we see a 15 to 20 deg f difference. I hope that is of some help. Max.

[cmashark]

This may not be the exact comparison you may need but. my friend has a 107 RG with a power vision , c r 460 air filter and street cannons , me a 107 softail with PV, s & s 475 air filter and modified standard muffler and we compared temps while we riding together. there was no real difference . since then I have upgraded to 11.1 and 117 and now we see a 15 to 20 deg f difference. I hope that is of some help. Max.

What temps are you seeing?

[cmashark]

An update.  I may have been chasing my tail a bit.  I still haven't ordered the parts I want, but did decide to do 1 more data log run.

I took the bike out for a little over an hour.  My data log was right at an hour long.  66-68 degrees the entire ride with very little wind, so my run conditions are nearly identical to my data logging on 3/24/19. 

So, oil cooled bike with factory lowers...  I pulled the lowers for this trip, took the same route, and realized an approximate 40-60 degree reduction in head temp and 20-45 degree drop in engine temp.  Engine temp cycled between 295 and 305.  Head temp cycled between 314 and 339, but spent the most of its time in the 314-327 degree area.

That's good and bad news for me.  Good news is with this run, my bike is staying in an acceptable range.  Bad news is that I like my lower fairings and probably won't run them again till late fall.  Now to justify the S&S cam plate/pump and premium lifters over the stock plate/pump and Wood lifters currently in the bike.

[To The Max]

At an ambient temp of about 78 deg f and 60 mph 250 ~ 260 .

[Ronbo2]

An update.  I may have been chasing my tail a bit.  I still haven't ordered the parts I want, but did decide to do 1 more data log run.

I took the bike out for a little over an hour.  My data log was right at an hour long.  66-68 degrees the entire ride with very little wind, so my run conditions are nearly identical to my data logging on 3/24/19. 

So, oil cooled bike with factory lowers...  I pulled the lowers for this trip, took the same route, and realized an approximate 40-60 degree reduction in head temp and 20-45 degree drop in engine temp.  Engine temp cycled between 295 and 305.  Head temp cycled between 314 and 339, but spent the most of its time in the 314-327 degree area.

That's good and bad news for me.  Good news is with this run, my bike is staying in an acceptable range.  Bad news is that I like my lower fairings and probably won't run them again till late fall.  Now to justify the S&S cam plate/pump and premium lifters over the stock plate/pump and Wood lifters currently in the bike.

Very helpful data temp data.  I'm running a 22x in my 107 freewheeler (no lowers) and see the same engine and cylinder temps that you are at 68 degrees.  I've tried an oil cooler, tank lift, wind deflectors etc to bring down the engine temp to 280 or less but came to the conclusion that this is just not a realistic number for touring models with M8s at highway speeds.  My temps go up about 15 degrees if I put on my fork wind deflectors which I love.

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

My take on the Milwaukee-Eight after doing close to a Hundred now is either of those are a good selection. Combined with a Stage I and a Free Flowing Exhaust,

MOST IMPORTANTLY is a Tune and remove the darn CAT. H-D Tunes are Heat Demons to help in the reduction of Emissions. Even the Auto-Tune is worthless since the 2016 Settlement.

Maybe someone will chime in with a good aftermarket Tuner. I really have no experience other than H-D and Direct Tune.

I know that about half the Heads I remove I have to use a 2 lb +. hammer and beat the crap out of them. I've even broken Fins. H-D does cover the replacement if they're damaged no issuers whatsoever. They say to do "whatever it takes".

Engineering said it was a "Gasket Issue". IMO it's a Heat issue. Even they recognize their is a problem.But, I have no technical data to support my theory that Heat is causing it. Other than if I get a Bike with say a couple thousand miles I don't "Generally" have issues.

[Heatwave3]

Just had a twin-cooled 128 M8 built with Wood 408 cam, 11.0:1 and stock heads. Built/Tuned by Fuel Moto - 140hp/151ftlbs. I run a PV mounted on my handlebar so I can observe ETs continuously. On a recent 200 mile "hard" ride (vents open - ambient temps between 45-50), my ETs were mostly in the 230s, some 240s and a high of 252. My previous twin-cooled, M8 Stage 4 with HD tune using Street Tuner, never ran below 270 and could easily run higher than 300.