March 28, 2024, 02:56:36 PM

News:

For advertising inquiries or help with registration or other issues, you may contact us by email at help@harleytechtalk.com


143 Version 2.0

Started by HD/Wrench, April 10, 2018, 08:22:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sfmichael

Can't wait for a ride report...  :pop:
Colorado Springs, CO.

1workinman

Quote from: sfmichael on June 01, 2019, 02:41:15 PM
Can't wait for a ride report...  :pop:
Yea I think all that is left is the crappy rear tire . I was given some good advice here on rear tires . I not planning on taking it to the track so I going to install a tire that will wear well and that might save a transmission or two . If it gives it up then I will buy a good transmission . But I don't see a reason to just break parts because I can . Will see how the 143 does and go from there

sfmichael

Quote from: 1workinman on June 01, 2019, 04:35:58 PM
Quote from: sfmichael on June 01, 2019, 02:41:15 PM
Can't wait for a ride report...  :pop:
Yea I think all that is left is the crappy rear tire . I was given some good advice here on rear tires . I not planning on taking it to the track so I going to install a tire that will wear well and that might save a transmission or two . If it gives it up then I will buy a good transmission . But I don't see a reason to just break parts because I can . Will see how the 143 does and go from there

:agree:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Phu Cat

Too much horsepower is almost enough.

No Cents

    yep...it's all motor.
I can't wait to hear what Jim has to say after he rides it.
He has one badass NA engine on that bike...that's for sure.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

1workinman

Quote from: No Cents on June 04, 2019, 03:46:12 PM
    yep...it's all motor.
I can't wait to hear what Jim has to say after he rides it.
He has one badass NA engine on that bike...that's for sure.
Well taking off tomorrow and working Saturday lol and getting the scooter . I looing forward to seeing it . I not ridden it in a while .  Looking forward to smooth linear power , that just pulls hard .

No Cents

Quote from: 1workinman on June 13, 2019, 06:40:53 PM
Quote from: No Cents on June 04, 2019, 03:46:12 PM
    yep...it's all motor.
I can't wait to hear what Jim has to say after he rides it.
He has one badass NA engine on that bike...that's for sure.
Well taking off tomorrow and working Saturday lol and getting the scooter . I looing forward to seeing it . I not ridden it in a while .  Looking forward to smooth linear power , that just pulls hard .

   I think your going to get your wish.   :wink:
Your going to have "tons" of power from any where in the rpm band. You got a monster right there Jim. Enjoy it!  :up:

08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

1workinman

I got to Steves and got a chance to look at the new front end , chrome lowers , new chrome 19 inch Harley wheel  same at the Street glide , and the brake rotors to make that happen with the dual disc factory brakes . Looks good . He started it up cold and it idled nice , even better than the 124 lol . He held a towel over the new exhaust and it is quiet at a singer sowing machine , very nice . I took it for a short ride and It is amazing now power every where , now I not use to how the machine runs so I did not want to be on u tube of the latest dumb ass on a bike lol .  So I just gave it a bit of throttle an it just launches forward , hit 3 k and shift to another . Gone is the caster shake or death wobble at 80 I blew past that  . Stops great or no wishing I had dual disc on the front lol , I got to get a back rest as I had a time holding on lol at part throttle .  The DD exhaust is nice not real loud but it sounds like it means business .  One thing that really got under my skin was the surging popping crap if I gave the motor some throttle of the 635 camshaft . Now with the 640 and some compression  smooth a glass and just pulls and I  did not notice any laying over,  hard to catch the next shift in the lower gears with out bumping the rev limiter , May need to work on that a bit , I may buy a pingel or how ever it is spelled .  When I got home and decided to go to town and eat supper the passenger   back rest was installed as the little woman did not want to get on it with out it lol  Loaded 2 was a pleasure now , no more surging and acting dumb crap , Take off in 1 get it a bit of throttle hit 3k or some and shift bit of throttle and 3.5 so and shift. plenty of power just right .  Once I hit 3 gear and nailed it and pulled up the front 2 up , that what I like . No one leaned back as I hit the throttle just motor ,  If the cylinders stay round I think this will work for me . Night and day transformation  from stock to this . This was not meant to be a track bike or dyno queen , just a fun bike and it is for me now . This is a second bike and I would not want any more or much less damn its a fun ride lol . Once I get use to it I explore more of the torque curve ,

pwmorris

 :up: :up:
Huge street HP, great manners putting in traffic, cruzin' thru stop and go boulevard cruising, instant acceleration to freeway speed on demand with no compromises- it looks like this "reboot" meets all the riders expectations.
As said, not a drag bike or dyno queen, but it does everything the owner asks for and more. Goals met and surpassed.
So many "dyno sheet" builds simply focusing on "peak" numbers, just can't say that.

Well done.

1workinman

 Thanks Paul I appreciate that , its been a learning experience . I know it costs a few dollars to have fun but I enjoy the rush I get from a motor that runs .  Star has a version of this with shorter cylinders  .200  ,  4.38 crank , b 2 heads , burns exhaust , shorter rod or that what I was told , same height at a 103 ,  So may be the 143 or some version of it might catch hold . I fine with mine as it is lol

1workinman

 I was not sure how the higher compression as far as heat was concerned , not really detonation , but how much heat the motor would make . The wards cooling fans and the oil cooler has a cooling fan also . I filled the engine with 10 - 60 liquid moly same as I use in the 124 . I had to or I did drain the oil to install the temp sensor so the reason for the oil change. I have oil temp gauges in both bikes to replace the dumb air temp gauges . At any rate the temp this evening was 90 I think and the temp stayed around 170 for the longest and finally migrated to 230 . One of my fans the impellor moved forward into the cover and locked up so one of the fans was not moving air . Probably the reason for the temp climbing at the last . Going to pull the fan and lock tight the damn impellor with red and see if that stops that crap . So will see how the motor does , so far quiet and little blow by .

1workinman

 Cooling fans well what a learning experience there , I pulled the damn thing off and removed the retaining ring on the back . I used a j hock to remove the fan assembly little by little and finally got it free . Then I pulled the impellor off the motor and its got small dowel molded in to lock it to the motor . At any rate I was out of 2 part epoxy so I used red lock tight to I hope secure the fan to the motor hub . How ever getting in a hurry and not paying attention not a good idea I installed the motor back in the housing and you have to pay attention to the small feed wires . Any way I was pushing on the center really bad idea there should have lined up the wires proper and pushed on the out side ring. Any way the injected molded or what ever the material is broke on the center support . So I had to go to town and buy a 2 part epoxy and clean , center the motor support with pieces of paper on the fan to secure it and center it .  Mixed up epoxy and repaired the supports with a generous amount of epoxy . Let set for a couple hours in the sun . Cleaned up area an made sure the impellor way clear and spun free . Reassembled and tested . Works good . For any one that that has the cooling fans and the impellor moves out and fouls in the screen . Use caution as don't get in a hurry or that my advice

1workinman

 If any one is considering on a 143 and if you do I recommend the different pistons and the 640 ez starts , 3 stage oil pump ect , Any way me and my friend Terry took both bike out he rode the 143 and me on the 124 and I was two up . The 124 makes in the 140s square . It was in the high 90s today . Both bikes used the same fuel and have exactly the same cooling fans to cool the heads . We went a Munster and ate at Docs and then up filled up the 143 used a tad less fuel . Both bikes have the same temp gauges in the pan and gauge in the fairing to monitor . Both bikes ran with in 5 degrees of each other . I was a tad concerned on how the big inch higher compression motor would run temp wise . We stopped at a road side parked to have a couple, to cool off, the engines ran below 200 for a long time and finally heated up to 220 running 75 . At the later part of the day when It got really hot the temps got to 230 running 80s lol . Neither bike used any oil not that I expected them to . Both have the same now breathers , 2 on the heads one like the one Ray posted . So far the higher compression has not been a problem lol . My friend Terry enjoyed the instant power of the 143 I cautioned him about down shifting a couple of gears and going for it lol . It will break traction just rolling on hard in 3  2 up lol .  It is easier to drive than the 124 for me as it has some much torque to just crack the throttle and shift at 3 plus k just easing around lol .

pwmorris

Quote from: 1workinman on June 29, 2019, 05:16:45 PM
If any one is considering on a 143 and if you do I recommend the different pistons and the 640 ez starts , 3 stage oil pump ect , Any way me and my friend Terry took both bike out he rode the 143 and me on the 124 and I was two up . The 124 makes in the 140s square . It was in the high 90s today . Both bikes used the same fuel and have exactly the same cooling fans to cool the heads . We went a Munster and ate at Docs and then up filled up the 143 used a tad less fuel . Both bikes have the same temp gauges in the pan and gauge in the fairing to monitor . Both bikes ran with in 5 degrees of each other . I was a tad concerned on how the big inch higher compression motor would run temp wise . We stopped at a road side parked to have a couple, to cool off, the engines ran below 200 for a long time and finally heated up to 220 running 75 . At the later part of the day when It got really hot the temps got to 230 running 80s lol . Neither bike used any oil not that I expected them to . Both have the same now breathers , 2 on the heads one like the one Ray posted . So far the higher compression has not been a problem lol . My friend Terry enjoyed the instant power of the 143 I cautioned him about down shifting a couple of gears and going for it lol . It will break traction just rolling on hard in 3  2 up lol .  It is easier to drive than the 124 for me as it has some much torque to just crack the throttle and shift at 3 plus k just easing around lol .

The big point of this thread IMO. Great, honest, detailed report as well......
Rider/owners have to take a very honest, hard look at what they Really Want in their bike, build and goals.
How they ride, how hard, how often, and how much they need specifically to achieve this level max street HP.
How much is Ego involved to have "the baddest street bike in town", despite the limitations of such a build.

The S&S 143, as is, is a beast, as a limited street, bagger track bruiser (but as I have said for a long time, if I was going that many cubes, this is not what I would use for this).
We don't ride a dyno sheet or drag race our street bikes everyday..........
Now the "upgraded version"....
Are new owners of 143's willing to deal with any "PMS" to try and use the big 143 as a daily driver? How many legit miles a year? 5, 10, 20, 30K? Honestly, what kind of miles? How much track time?
Willing to make the mods noted above to try and "smooth out" some of the riding issues, and make the motor "better and more reliable", as an all around hi performance daily driver?
Would the OP say the 143" is easier to ride in various conditions over the 124"
if all the work wasn't don't to make this bike this smooth?
My 126" would not be, for example, an ideal motor for a heavy bagger, as it hits hard mid to upper rpms. I know this and would not sell it as a long touring bagger motor.
Does a typical owner understand what they are getting into, good and bad?

At the end of the day, as I've said for a long time, unless you really understand what you really want, your goals, bike, riding style, and how much and where you plan on riding it, you may be in for a shock and disappointment, by trying to make a bike and motor something it was never meant to be.

1workinman

 Paul I bought this bike expecting because my 12 Street Glide was down having motor work done and I was in for a few life experiences . It would run but it was any thing but stellar . It made 165 hp but it was a not smooth deliverable power .  It was not my cup of tea and I talked to several folks and I had not idea and only heard rumors of this and that testing ,  took it to Steve at GMR and asked him to fix this motor . I was not the only one to have experienced this either . I had no intentions of build a track bike or bragging rights .  As far as miles a year as many as I want I have no expectations of how many miles it will last . A candle that burns brighter generally want last as long . For me that ok and I don't have any problems with that . A big heavy bike feels pretty good with the extra torque lol and I enjoy the sheer fun of the rush I get from it and I know it not a cheap thrill lol  If I look very far I find a faster bike not a big deal lol I know better that to do that .  I  know most want believe it but it easier to operate for me because it has so much torque that it just takes a tad bit of throttle but give it some and its on lol Its worth it to me .  I just reporting on how it goes as I had no idea , this is a second bike but I going to test it and see what It can do not WFO but how it stands up to operating it on the road and I going to find out . if it fails I have a back up plan . I just passing on what I learned good and bad .  Steve went to a lot of trouble to make it happen and so far it has .  The key to this is heat control or I think so and so far I think that using the cooling fans is very important , and good tune , use good fuel , no lugging I avoid city driving stop and go . I hate that crap any way . I like cool weather , so even better . I wanted to see how it did in the heat and I was pleasantly surprised it got to 99 or so that day and 80 plus for many miles  . I don't really care about fuel consumption but the 124 2 up used more fuel that the 143 did going the same speed or close .   I enjoy taking it out and running it or just cruising just like the 124 . it just more fun lol . This version of the 143 does what I want for now lol no idea how long but so far its I sure don't expect it to go 100k . I just learn and move on will see 

sfmichael

You've got the right attitude workinman  :up:
Colorado Springs, CO.

1workinman

Quote from: sfmichael on July 05, 2019, 09:37:22 PM
You've got the right attitude workinman  :up:
lol thanks the first little problem has risen the starter is making noises and I think the starter clutch is giving up so , pull the starter and replace the starter with a all ball unit is my first guess  . The bike has a new billet basket and ring gear . clutch not that that make a difference and a compensator. Not sure if I can inspect the ring gear through the hole proper but I going to replace any thing that is not in good shape . I could have bought a new bike for what I got in it but not one that will run like this one .   So one of the benefits of having two bike other than having two ways to spend money lol . The motor itself is doing a good job not a problem yet . So I going to do a search on starters to see what is the best way to go . Headed your way in a bit to go ride may be around Durango .

turboprop

Quote from: 1workinman on July 06, 2019, 05:05:41 PM
Quote from: sfmichael on July 05, 2019, 09:37:22 PM
You've got the right attitude workinman  :up:
lol thanks the first little problem has risen the starter is making noises and I think the starter clutch is giving up so , pull the starter and replace the starter with a all ball unit is my first guess  . The bike has a new billet basket and ring gear . clutch not that that make a difference and a compensator. Not sure if I can inspect the ring gear through the hole proper but I going to replace any thing that is not in good shape . I could have bought a new bike for what I got in it but not one that will run like this one .   So one of the benefits of having two bike other than having two ways to spend money lol . The motor itself is doing a good job not a problem yet . So I going to do a search on starters to see what is the best way to go . Headed your way in a bit to go ride may be around Durango .


This:

http://techcycle.com/2007starter/

And this:

http://www.spraggusa.com

Everything else (Including Alls Balls) is a compromise.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

1workinman

Sir I appreciate you posting the information , I started to ask the question or start a new thread but I thought I search a bit first lol . I read a few posts but had not came up with a solid answer . I don't mind spending some coin on well made products or labor , I know your builds are top shelf and I read them to learn . Thanks for the advice

turboprop

There may also be some gains to be had by modifying the OEM and S&S automatic compression releases. Baisley (and possibly others) would modify off the shelf manual compression releases to flow more air. Most guys that run/ran big block, high compression engines eventually found their way to high-flow manual compression releases. Maybe someone is doing the same thing for the harley ACRs. If not, now might be a good time for the industry to look at this. Maybe enlarging the relief hole in the heads. Just thinking out loud.

Another area is electrical. Aside from the countless posts regurgitated by others (skin effect comes to mind), there are some real gains to be had from some types of heavy gauge cables. Even more important that the thickness of the wire (large vs extra large), is the type of contact made between the ring terminal and its corresponding mating surface (both ends). A heavy gauge ring terminal with a lot of surface area is best. This can be debated, but IME, a ring terminal with a large contact patch placed directly against the mounting surface attached by a bolt with a star washer (Internal and external teeth) will provide the best connection. Some of the aftermarket cables are ok, but you would do better to make your own. Done right, you can even add extra leads coming off both the positive and negative leads that cane used for various purposes.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

FXDBI

Its got S&S easy starts ?  Bob

1workinman

Quote from: turboprop on July 06, 2019, 07:19:17 PM
There may also be some gains to be had by modifying the OEM and S&S automatic compression releases. Baisley (and possibly others) would modify off the shelf manual compression releases to flow more air. Most guys that run/ran big block, high compression engines eventually found their way to high-flow manual compression releases. Maybe someone is doing the same thing for the harley ACRs. If not, now might be a good time for the industry to look at this. Maybe enlarging the relief hole in the heads. Just thinking out loud.

Another area is electrical. Aside from the countless posts regurgitated by others (skin effect comes to mind), there are some real gains to be had from some types of heavy gauge cables. Even more important that the thickness of the wire (large vs extra large), is the type of contact made between the ring terminal and its corresponding mating surface (both ends). A heavy gauge ring terminal with a lot of surface area is best. This can be debated, but IME, a ring terminal with a large contact patch placed directly against the mounting surface attached by a bolt with a star washer (Internal and external teeth) will provide the best connection. Some of the aftermarket cables are ok, but you would do better to make your own. Done right, you can even add extra leads coming off both the positive and negative leads that cane used for various purposes.
That's good advice , Steve installed ez starts and I had asked about the compression releases but there not machined in to the head . seems like I read about some additional work being done to some of the track bikes had either two sets or some things of that nature . Any way I going to build some cables , I work at a power plant so building cable should not be a problem . Good idea on the ring terminals . The bike spins over pretty good but the starter clutch makes a hell of a noise I think that is it every now and then and its becoming more often . I fully expected some of these things to happen , just part of the game . learn and move on . Speaking of which many years ago I happened on the very large contacts for these starters , I used them in my dodge diesel and the toyato turbo diesel , some contacts lol  Thanks again for the advice   

1workinman

 I thought I swap batteries in the bike , Steve installed and new battery in the bike and like I said it seems to turn over pretty good but the 12 Street Glide has a new twin power battery that is lot more amps so that and the good set of cable want hurt any thing and no down side that I can see. I not sure if I can install a set of the bigger contacts in the solenoid like I used in my dodge

aabikrman

Go with the Spraggusa.com.

My little 120 liked to eat starter clutches about every two years. The Spragg fixed that issue and it's got a lifetime replacement warranty that I've not needed.  I'm also meticulous with good batteries, cables, and clean contacts but the Spragg seemed to resolve my issue.

1workinman

Quote from: aabikrman on July 07, 2019, 06:00:05 AM
Go with the Spraggusa.com.

My little 120 liked to eat starter clutches about every two years. The Spragg fixed that issue and it's got a lifetime replacement warranty that I've not needed.  I'm also meticulous with good batteries, cables, and clean contacts but the Spragg seemed to resolve my issue.
:up: Thanks