05 electra glide standard-R Cyl Miss

[86fxwg]

Start the bike cold runs ok, after about a minute miss is intermittent then goes to dead miss.
Hears what ive done! In order.
Fresh plugs, Also switched holes same plugs. Still rear cyl miss.
Donor set of wires,still dead miss after 15 seconds of running.
Thru a good running bikes coil @ it still misses on the rear.
Checked compression F130/R130 throttle wide open semi warm.
Leak down on rear cylinder 5%
Pulled rear rocker cover thinking rear cyl valve spring broke grasping at straws. Every thing looks good NO noises from valve train, valves are moving.
Switched coil driver wires @ ECM & switched plug wires on coil trying to make the miss move to the front. Stll missed on the rear
Switched injector driver wires @ ECM pin's 19 & 21, switched injector connectors to see if miss would move, still dead miss on rear cylinder.
OHM's on both injectors is 16.8 hot. this is from fuel pump fuse to pins 19 & 21 ECM unplugged & wiggling wires under tank.
Ran a fuel pressure drop test with matco fuel injector pulser on both injectors,both drop evenly 6psi.
Fuel pressure holds 55 psi for 5 min. Running 60PSI
Ran the bike several time,s doing wire wiggle test with tank propped up, CAN'T get it to pick up rear cylinder. 

Gotta be mechanical but how if it has even compression & only 5% leak down?

Any ideas ? I luv these issues but this ones kicking my A$$!

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[fbn ent]

 

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Get a can of freeze spray & start spraying things? 

[kouack]

Maybe this is me being french, i read you swap wire connections at ecm but have you swap the injectors them self? Make sure no broken wires at injectors in plugs. 

[fbn ent]

 ......maybe.

[86fxwg]

Moving pins @ the ECM & swapping injector plugs is the same thing isn't it.
I can hear the injector's with stethoscope clicking while it's running.
Both have the same drop on pressure gauge using a pulse/flow tester.

Just load tested ALL ECM power & ground's with a holegen head light! Bulb can't get any brighter!


86

[rredneckn2]

Maybe this is me being french, i read you swap wire connections at ecm but have you swap the injectors them self? Make sure no broken wires at injectors in plugs. 

I had my 06 wear me out and I had a T Max on it broken wire front injector hold connector rubber band test wire  mine was a couple inches from connector. The wire is too tight and breaks inside insulation.

[kouack]

Moving pins @ the ECM & swapping injector plugs is the same thing isn't it.
I can hear the injector's with stethoscope clicking while it's running.
Both have the same drop on pressure gauge using a pulse/flow tester.

Just load tested ALL ECM power & ground's with a holegen head light! Bulb can't get any brighter!


86

No if wire is broken at the injector!

[BVHOG]

Seen an evo do this one time, one of the compliance fittings was shot, could you possibly have that bad of an intake leak? doubtful but I would go back to checking mechanical at this point, be damn sure the springs are not broke or a valve sticking after it warms up. Maybe even a guide moving in the head.  Have you actually swapped out to different injectors? Just cause it's clicking doesn't mean it's letting fuel through. If this doesn't do it then the next thing downstream would be the lifters.

[86fxwg]

Moving pins @ the ECM & swapping injector plugs is the same thing isn't it.
I can hear the injector's with stethoscope clicking while it's running.
Both have the same drop on pressure gauge using a pulse/flow tester.

Just load tested ALL ECM power & ground's with a holegen head light! Bulb can't get any brighter!


86

No if wire is broken at the injector!

I have tugged, pulled,moved wires under the tank as the tank is lifted to make access to the injectors for swapping plugs on the injectors.

Seen an evo do this one time, one of the compliance fittings was shot, could you possibly have that bad of an intake leak? doubtful but I would go back to checking mechanical at this point, be damn sure the springs are not broke or a valve sticking after it warms up. Maybe even a guide moving in the head.  Have you actually swapped out to different injectors? Just cause it's clicking doesn't mean it's letting fuel through. If this doesn't do it then the next thing downstream would be the lifters.

That's the only thing Bob I can think of is a valve sticking or a very weak spring weak spring. weak spring woudn't show up on a leak down test but u would think a sticking valve would.
Bike can be dead cold & run fine for the first minute then intermittent miss, then within 30 seconds go to a dead miss.
Ive current ramped the injectors,they look identical.

Ive scoped the ignition but im not 100% sure how to tell the firing line with or without compression.

Had many of cars run dead on 1 cylinder @ idle then off idle it picks up & miss cant be felt. usually a burnt valve,thats how this feels. Seems to pick up the rear about 2000 rpm in the shop. Not sure  if out on the road it does because i didnt ride it. realy didnt think it was gonna be a big deal & dove rite in keeping it K.I.S.S ! Wll that went out the window 5 hours ago!


I just cant help to think its mechanical but il be damed if i can prove it!

Il check anything anyone can think of.

Ther is absalutly NO valve train noise @ all!


Thanks Gents


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[kd]

How about doing a cold compression test and then warming it up and doing a compression check on the rear well after it drops out.   Do it before it cools down.   It will at least confirm the cylinder condition.

[86fxwg]

How about doing a cold compression test and then warming it up and doing a compression check on the rear well after it drops out.   Do mit before it cools down.   It will at least confirm the cylinder condition.

KD I did that yesterday when the bike was dropped off. Dead cold they were even 120/120 . semi warm 130/130 Seemed low to me but even.

A long time customer dropped buy to talk riding his 2000 RK. I used his as a test mule to compare his was 130/130 hot wide open throttle but with air cleaner on. Did it quick in the driveway.
cylinders look good with bore scope but I cant see the valves.
Id pull the exaust if it wasn't such a bitch with the stock Y-pipe!

I think Bob is on the rite track with a valve sticking. Bike sat for 4 hours while we cooked out,just starteds the bike,ran fine for maybe 2 minutes then when into intermitent miss then 30 seconds or so went into a dead miss' Could actually grab the rear pipe its cool to the touch!

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[kd]

I would normally agree and was actually going to suggest it before Bob posted it.  It's the "Ther is absalutly NO valve train noise @ all!" part that troubles me.  A sticking valve would mean valve sounding on one valve and now the compression is even when hot so that pretty well rules out a sticking valve.  If a loose guide was fouling a plug the restart when cooled off would be problematic.

[86fxwg]

Just let the bike run & get extremely hot to redo compression test hot. Rear plug slightly wet with fuel compression 120R front 115!


86

[86fxwg]

Hot compression front

[86fxwg]

Hot rear

[kd]

I think the low numbers is your gauge because it performed the same on your buddy's 02.  The fact that they are close to even says something good, not bad.  The rear was wet, probably because it stopped firing and burning the fuel.  Have you checked the intake seals?  It's beginning to sound like a severe leak on expansion.

added later:   .... or even a head gasket.   Can you see any hint of a stain or carbon track around the head gasket?  Maybe not with the compression test even.   

[86fxwg]

I think the low numbers is your gauge because it performed the same on your buddy's 02.  The fact that they are close to even says something good, not bad.  The rear was wet, probably because it stopped firing and burning the fuel.  Have you checked the intake seals?  It's beginning to sound like a severe leak on expansion.

Yes I have KD but absolutely no change . I'm gonna do it again. Customer says it's never had a wrench on it other than maintenance.
I just ran it for a minute with this spark tester installed,nice blue spark & never stopped sparking.

[kd]

Blue spark and wet with fuel usually means it has all it needs.  If it's too much fuel once it warms up that could kill it.  Now the head temp sensor can be suspect and turning up the fuel on the rear.  does it start to smell rich?

[86fxwg]

Good job gentleman (I use that loosly) let it run, sprayed brake cleaner @ the rear intake seal no leak, sprayed @ the injector o-ring miss seamed to go away.

Throwing seals & orings in tommorow. I can sleep tonight!

86

[86fxwg]

I cant remember if I checked the seals when it was actually dead missing,i know I checked them when he dropped it off with him hear & it passed the test! 

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[kd]

They can look good in hand but not fit well when installed.  Check the bore for crap or damage.  Nice find and way to go keeping it together with a plan of attack.  Fingers crossed here. 

[86fxwg]

They can look good in hand but not fit well when installed.  Check the bore for crap or damage.  Nice find and way to go keeping it together with a plan of attack.  Fingers crossed here. 

So ur saying theres no automotive oring u know of kd that will work? ive used automotive injector pig tails to repair bad connectors,but orings are different? I thought these were pretty much GM injectors on the old ones. pulled newer ones out that had ford stamped on them.

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[kd]

The Harley part number for your injector will be a direct cross over to a GM injector.  Take that number and run it in a GM pert reference if you can find one.  I don't know if Ronnies Parts Finder gives the dimensions but it's worth a look too.  There's lots of people using them in their Harley,  If the GM dealer stocks them.  Who knows, FSG is just starting his day in Auz and he may see this.  It's amazing the info he has squirreled away.  Worse case you can peel it off and use it as per sample or even make one with an o-ring kit to see if it helps.  If it does you can buy one when stores open up.

[86fxwg]

New intake seals,injector o-rings, checked flanges for flatness. ran fine till it warmed up then went back to dead rear cylinder!
Let the bike sit for 10 minutes runs fine, after a minute of running completely drops rear cylinder.
Going back & checking power & grounds!
Took ECM out of an 02 with a tts tuned hippo build, bike started & died woudnt restart.



86