Low oil pressure/stalling at idle

[nutsandbolts5212]

Good morning,

I have a friend's bike that is having an issue: The initial start up is fine, but once the bike gets up to operating temperature, the bike begins running hot and the oil light comes on.  At this point the bike begins losing oil pressure at higher RPMs, and if the bike is at idle, it will die out, with the oil pressure being near zero.  When the bike is re-started, he needs to roll the throttle and start at the same time, and keep the RPMs up otherwise the bike will die out, once again the oil pressure light is on with near zero pressure on the gauge.

This is a 2013 EG Ultra Limited 103 all stock with about 25k on the motor.

Before I start pulling the bike apart with him I would like any suggestions first.  My first thought is the pressure relief spring.  He also has excessive blow by in the air cleaner, the whole thing was a mess.

What do you guys think??

Thanks in advance

[Armin]

Did you read any failure codes?

Armin.

[Ohio HD]

Put an actual pressure gauge on the motor to verify what you see now. If it is loosing pressure, I'd check the oil pump for damage, and the crank pinion shaft for run out even if the oil pump looks ok.

[K4FXD]

First thing to pop into my head is major sumping. Is the oil tank empty when this happens?

[Leed]

Put an actual pressure gauge on the motor to verify what you see now. If it is loosing pressure, I'd check the oil pump for damage, and the crank pinion shaft for run out even if the oil pump looks ok.

  I had thought I had an oil pressure problem until I put a gauge on it.  Wound up being the sensor.

[nutsandbolts5212]

Sorry guys, busy the past few days with work and life.  I'll have him check the codes again.  I wrote them down when this first began and can't find them. 

I think we are going to open her up and see whats going on.  I'll keep all of you posted, thanks for the replies and suggestions.

[nutsandbolts5212]

UPDATE:  Ok, talked with my guy last night.  He told me that there are no codes showing, (and I checked myself because his bike was in my garage), but what is happening is that when the bike gets to operating temp, it sounds as if one cylinder is running, or that the tuning is off, meaning that the motor doesn't run "normal".  His oil pressure gauge also drops to near 0 when this begins to happen.  Once again no codes.

Thoughts? I was thinking Crank Position Sensor or something with the oil pump/pressure relief spring.

Thanks in advance and ride safe!!

[kd]

First thing to pop into my head is major sumping. Is the oil tank empty when this happens?

   This needs to be checked

[86fxwg]

First thing to pop into my head is major sumping. Is the oil tank empty when this happens?

   This needs to be checked

plus install a mechanical oil pressure gauge before ANY disassembly.

86

[nutsandbolts5212]

Thanks guys for the replies, I'll keep you posted.  Gonna try and bring the bike in the garage in a couple of weeks.

Ride safe!!

[nutsandbolts5212]

Ok, have to ask: What's the best way to check for oil sumping?

[K4FXD]

Best way is to pull the sump drain and see how much oil comes out.

An easier way is check the oil cold, then when the problem happens shut it off and re-check the oil level. If it is lower it would indicate sumping.

Symptoms of it when riding is low power and excessive heat from the engine.

[nutsandbolts5212]

Thanks K, the symptom you described sounds like that is the problem, however, I'll do the check as well.

BTW, the drain plug is the one the manual says not to remove correct??

Ride safe!!

[86fxwg]

BTW, the drain plug is the one the manual says not to remove correct??


[/quote]

  Yes Sir.

86

[mike jesse]

If it's sumping it will more than likely be down on power too.

[nutsandbolts5212]

Thanks for all the responses.  Just to give an update:  My friend traded in that bike for a 2016 Ultra Limited, turned out to be another friend's bike that we haven't seen in a while.  Anyway, never had an opportunity to break the bike down and see what the hell was going on, but I do believe with the others that the bike was sump-ping oil.  My friend didn't want to deal with the hassle of it.

Just wanted to update and not leave the thread hanging.

Ride safe!!

[les]

UPDATE:  Ok, talked with my guy last night.  He told me that there are no codes showing, (and I checked myself because his bike was in my garage), but what is happening is that when the bike gets to operating temp, it sounds as if one cylinder is running, or that the tuning is off, meaning that the motor doesn't run "normal".  His oil pressure gauge also drops to near 0 when this begins to happen.  Once again no codes.

Thoughts? I was thinking Crank Position Sensor or something with the oil pump/pressure relief spring.

Thanks in advance and ride safe!!

It sounds like the engine temperature system is doing it's thing:
1. First, it makes the AFR rich, to try to cool the engine
2. Second, it shuts down the rear cylinder, to try to cool it additionally
3. If those don't work, it eventually shuts down the engine

[Frank_972]

Hi guys.

Regarding oil, I got a couple of questions.
Why the oil cannot be drained removing the bottom drain plug?
What is the so-called "oil sumping"?
Thanks.

[kd]

Welcome to the site Frank.

The plug in the bottom of the engine case only drains residual oil if present. Do not remove it unless necessary.   Re-tightening is a delicate operation.  On your softail the oil is in the separate oil tank. Sumping can be when the oil drains while sitting through a leaking check valve and ends up down in the crankcase.  The oil level will show low but after you start it and let it idle for a bit the pump will scavenge the oil and put it back into the tank.  Another type of sumping is when the return side of the pump does not do its job well enough the oil will build up in the crankcase causing excessive heat and / or loss of power due to oil friction on the flywheels.