HarleyTechTalk

my 2008 engine started making a new sound that has me bummed. and ideas on what to look at first would be appreciated.

thanks

Sounds like lifter noise. How many miles on the engine?

17k but has s&s adjustable pushrods. maybe the jam nuts unjammed?

Quote from: techson on April 22, 2024, 07:24:55 PM17k but has s&s adjustable pushrods. maybe the jam nuts unjammed?

Easy to check.

It's rare, but it happens- I have also had one or two of those jam nuts split over the years, inducing a lot of racket.

well it's a start, guess I'll pull the covers off and have a look. s&s lifters in there also, so I might as well look at them while I'm in there.

pushrods and lifters look good, jam nuts were still tight af, lifters dont have any wear I can see.

Time to go a bit deeper- check inner cam bearings, oil pump, etc.

these are only 2k miles oil pump looks good, better than the cams and plate. checked crank pinion runout again. .005 total

Check the roller on the lifters. Feel for tight spots, rough spots, etc.

Well I can't get the video to start but someone has say it ..... did you check the exhaust and head gaskets?  Using a smoking cigarette will give a leak away when you can hear it but before it shows visually.

Try Windows Media Player Legacy. That's what I used to hear it.

try this

You cannot view this attachment.

Techson,
I have very limited experience relative to others on this forum and particularly this thread, but I can share that I have seen a similar scenario.... once.....after the engine had already seized.

Based on the pics you provided, you have some serious wear on at least one of your cams and the obvious (wobble) wear on the backside (inside) of your cam plate. I never got to hear the engine prior to failure so I can't expand on what the owner heard - he said nothing noticeable but he did complain of a long term vibration and had previously gone through new engine mounts, his OEM, then a Fueling and finally an S&S cam plate before the main event, he admitted. He also admitted the original cam plate bolts showed a lot of "use" from previous owner. He had new ones in place.
On a side note, I have had trouble installing Fueling and S&S Cam plates I assume likely due to their tight tolerences. Perhaps your cam plate was installed incorrectly - not judging/suggesting, which caused similar wobble marks for both of you. Dunnofershur.

I suspected crank runout caused cam bearing failure followed by destruction of the cam bearing and it's mounting port but again, I'm the least experienced here. Post inspection of the oil pan did reveal he had been riding it beyond safe margins, however.
 
You say your crank is measured at .005? Can you show (pic) us how you measured it? I use an old cam plate cut in half, bushing removed with a dial set in a drilled pilot hole. (tried to post a pic on this quick reply but no joy).

Bottom line? I expect you have more crank runout that you measure, for whatever my opinion is worth. Re-measure to be sure and listen to the others on your thread. They are much more experienced.

***Just found Coyote has a pic posted in Homemade Tools Section under heading "Crank Runout"***

thanks FSG!! I guess I'll pull the rocker covers off and see what I can see there. I was comparing the old stock cams and cam plate to the new ones and really surprised how much more wear I have on the new ones. rev limiter is set at 6k and I've hit it a couple times doing auto tunes but I haven't lugged and am careful to roll on the throttle no burnouts wheelies or other stuff I might have been encouraged to do 30 years ago . I think the crank runout (.005 ) not increasing supports this.  the cam plate and oil pump are screaming eagle S&S lifters and quickee pushrods. I'm not seeing anything bad in the oil pump and orings look good. I've battled  a heat problem since first built big bore 107" flat top pistons, cnc ported heads s&s ezstart .570cams. engine temp on the pv1b shows 259 at best on long steady cruises with any stoplight action rising to 270 or higher it's never rattled or shut down highest temp observed was 307. I added a jagg 10 row vertical cooler about 200 miles into breakin but it didn't affect engine temps that I could tell. I've run amsoil 20-50 and k&n filters. always 93 octane fuel (yeah that's getting expensive ) I've worked with Lucas at fuelmoto on the dynojet fuel map and tuning and I have target tune. he said in last email "log looked virtually perfect"  I really can't afford to just throw parts at it especially replacing parts that are still new.

Quote from: Tacocaster on April 24, 2024, 05:25:32 AMTechson,
I have very limited experience relative to others on this forum and particularly this thread, but I can share that I have seen a similar scenario.... once.....after the engine had already seized.

Based on the pics you provided, you have some serious wear on at least one of your cams and the obvious (wobble) wear on the backside (inside) of your cam plate. I never got to hear the engine prior to failure so I can't expand on what the owner heard - he said nothing noticeable but he did complain of a long term vibration and had previously gone through new engine mounts, his OEM, then a Fueling and finally an S&S cam plate before the main event, he admitted. He also admitted the original cam plate bolts showed a lot of "use" from previous owner. He had new ones in place.
On a side note, I have had trouble installing Fueling and S&S Cam plates I assume likely due to their tight tolerences. Perhaps your cam plate was installed incorrectly - not judging/suggesting, which caused similar wobble marks for both of you. Dunnofershur.

I suspected crank runout caused cam bearing failure followed by destruction of the cam bearing and it's mounting port but again, I'm the least experienced here. Post inspection of the oil pan did reveal he had been riding it beyond safe margins, however.
 
You say your crank is measured at .005? Can you show (pic) us how you measured it? I use an old cam plate cut in half, bushing removed with a dial set in a drilled pilot hole. (tried to post a pic on this quick reply but no joy).

Bottom line? I expect you have more crank runout that you measure, for whatever my opinion is worth. Re-measure to be sure and listen to the others on your thread. They are much more experienced.

***Just found Coyote has a pic posted in Homemade Tools Section under heading "Crank Runout"***

 

thanks for the input Tacocaster. I'm using the fuelmoto tool to measure runout on the pinion side of the crank. I did chase all the bolt holes and bolts in the case with a snapon thread chaser to clean off the old loctite and grime, blew brake cleaner and air to clean out all my holes. just a touch of blue loctite and torqued to spec per manual.

here's a better video of the front cam. is it trash?
removed the snap ring and cleaned reassembled and clearance between cam and cam plate is .015

As long as there's not a ridge that you can feel it looks to be just normal wear. Did you keep the lifters segregated so that you can look at each roller as compared to each lobe?

Quote from: Ohio HD on April 24, 2024, 01:05:56 PMAs long as there's not a ridge that you can feel it looks to be just normal wear. Did you keep the lifters segregated so that you can look at each roller as compared to each lobe

well some good news at last. yes but i'm hesitant to reuse those lifters. 

update,

the crank had .005 runout but another .004 when i lifted it. new s&s crank, bearings, s&s cam plate and oil pump and gear drive cams. mechanic said those screaming eagle cam plates have issues and dont handle crank runout well. fuel moto said the same thing. pistons and cylinders had some scuffing but mechanic said it wasnt bad enough to replace them. hoping to have the engine back this week

Hi,
I couldn't get the video to go, so are coming in without knowing the sound you are referring to. Couldn't help thinking this thread might help

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,121869.0.html

Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: techson on April 22, 2024, 05:27:02 PMmy 2008 engine started making a new sound that has me bummed. and ideas on what to look at first would be appreciated.

thanks