Added 25% more filter media and retained the 5 micron rating.
[attach=0]
nice to see the MoCo coming out with an improved part. :wink:
We did the math on the filter the other day - it's like a 13% increase in volume / media. No where near 25%. And, the port and valve has not changed. how's it gonna provide more flow? Inquiring minds want to know. If you don't take a good look at one next to the standard one closely, you can't see the difference in size.
Harley is using the new math.
external dims show a 14% increase in Volume,
what are the dims of the filtering media inside ..... ?,
so until someone cuts one open and measures it remains an unknown
Quote from: FSG on March 11, 2020, 03:31:29 PM
external dims show a 14% increase in Volume,
what are the dims of the filtering media inside ..... ?,
so until someone cuts one open and measures it remains an unknown
Considering there's a fixed amount of non-filtering area inside the filter, that 14% volume increase may well give them 25% more filter area.
MAY :up:
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 11, 2020, 02:51:54 PM
We did the math on the filter the other day - it's like a 13% increase in volume / media. No where near 25%. And, the port and valve has not changed. how's it gonna provide more flow? Inquiring minds want to know. If you don't take a good look at one next to the standard one closely, you can't see the difference in size.
It won't plug up as fast between oil changes. I've found that running an oil pressure gauge post filter that sucker is starting to drop psi in as little a 2500 miles. The K&N never showed a drop even at 5k, but it was 10 micron. Besides, MoCo rarely does anything like that for the hell of it. There is a reason. More media, more safe operational time between oil changes. Side benefit of more media is a bit more flow.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on March 11, 2020, 04:25:24 PM
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 11, 2020, 02:51:54 PM
We did the math on the filter the other day - it's like a 13% increase in volume / media. No where near 25%. And, the port and valve has not changed. how's it gonna provide more flow? Inquiring minds want to know. If you don't take a good look at one next to the standard one closely, you can't see the difference in size.
It won't plug up as fast between oil changes. I've found that running an oil pressure gauge post filter that sucker is starting to drop psi in as little a 2500 miles. The K&N never showed a drop even at 5k, but it was 10 micron. Besides, MoCo rarely does anything like that for the hell of it. There is a reason. More media, more safe operational time between oil changes. Side benefit of more media is a bit more flow.
Ron
exactly my thinking. There has to be a reason why...they just aren't telling. :wink:
Quote from: rbabos on March 11, 2020, 04:25:24 PMBesides, MoCo rarely does anything like that for the hell of it. There is a reason. More media, more safe operational time between oil changes. Side benefit of more media is a bit more flow.
Ron
Probably so they can increase the price and delete the old filter. Costs them another 5 cents to build, sell to the dealers for $2 more.
It's probably going to be imported as well.
They probably changed their supplier, and their supplier had a few million of these on hand. Just run them through the printing machine to apply the logo and poof!
Cynical bunch we are. :hyst:
Recently I had a chat with a rep from a major oil filter manufacturer. He said HD's twin cam filter was very good and that theirs was as good . He went on to say the HD EVO filter was horrible and their replacement was superior.
Remember the old really long Evo Dyna filters?
I think the main reason Harley with the short filters on the TC was the crank sensor. The M-8's are not in the way anymore so now they can make the filters longer. I still use the long EVO's filters on the EVO's and some XL's. Harley still has them still made in the USA. Did he say why the EVO's filters were bad. I being using them for the last 29 years no problems yet.
HD came out with another oil pump in late 2019 for the 2020 models and to retrofit all M8's as needed to combat oil sumping by using an 8 lobe pump for better scavenging. Are they already having issues with their new pump? Wouldn't surprise me, it's only Harley's 9th try on a pump to fix the design flaws of the M8's. Sorry, have little to no faith in Harley any longer. One would think that after 117 years they could build a VTwin engine [ their bread and butter engine ] without all these issues. Maybe they should outsource their engines to a small engine manufacturer located in Wisconsin. They can get it right, at least most of the time and still American made.
Quote from: Buglet on March 12, 2020, 10:14:42 AM
I think the main reason Harley with the short filters on the TC was the crank sensor. The M-8's are not in the way anymore so now they can make the filters longer. I still use the long EVO's filters on the EVO's and some XL's. Harley still has them still made in the USA. Did he say why the EVO's filters were bad. I being using them for the last 29 years no problems yet.
I also have been using them for years and never an issue. He said real cheap internals that are not up to today's standards. :idunno: He seemed genuine in his statements and it didn't seem like a salesman spewing buy my product BS
Hi guys, im pretty sure i read some where that the 8 lobe pump also had more volume, that being correct i think they would also need to make sure the filter could keep up with that flow as it got close to the end of it's service life . therefore the need for more filter media surface area. Max
Quote from: calif phil on March 13, 2020, 09:12:27 AM
Quote from: Buglet on March 12, 2020, 10:14:42 AM
I think the main reason Harley with the short filters on the TC was the crank sensor. The M-8's are not in the way anymore so now they can make the filters longer. I still use the long EVO's filters on the EVO's and some XL's. Harley still has them still made in the USA. Did he say why the EVO's filters were bad. I being using them for the last 29 years no problems yet.
I also have been using them for years and never an issue. He said real cheap internals that are not up to today's standards. :idunno: He seemed genuine in his statements and it didn't seem like a salesman spewing buy my product BS
Don't forget the Evo filter is on the return side.
Quote from: To The Max on March 13, 2020, 03:21:10 PM
Hi guys, im pretty sure i read some where that the 8 lobe pump also had more volume, that being correct i think they would also need to make sure the filter could keep up with that flow as it got close to the end of it's service life . therefore the need for more filter media surface area. Max
We have a winner!
Why would HD build a larger pump on the supply side when they have had sumping issues?
Quote from: PoorUB on March 14, 2020, 06:31:05 PM
Why would HD build a larger pump on the supply side when they have had sumping issues?
Yep your dead right , i went back to the post that Joe Lyons put up and it seems i miss read it and then let my keyboard to the talking . sorry guy's this is just fake news. the pressure side remains the same but i will stick to my thoughts on the reason to have more filter media :bf:
Does it really make any difference why they changed it? You gotta buy a filter anyway so why not just buy the longer one?
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 11, 2020, 02:51:54 PM
We did the math on the filter the other day - it's like a 13% increase in volume / media. No where near 25%.
The can length may have only increased 13 percent, but remember, the filter media does not run the full length of the can.
They made filter capacity larger to make up for the HD tech's that overfill :smiled:
Quote from: Buglet on March 12, 2020, 10:14:42 AM
I think the main reason Harley with the short filters on the TC was the crank sensor. The M-8's are not in the way anymore so now they can make the filters longer. I still use the long EVO's filters on the EVO's and some XL's. Harley still has them still made in the USA. Did he say why the EVO's filters were bad. I being using them for the last 29 years no problems yet.
Agreed. :up:
Here is the "unofficial" "Official" reason for the change.
Discussed this with the a very good friend at the "Mothership" - This was done to meed the E.P.A. Requirement of "Capacities". That's ALL HE SAID HE COULD SAY.
He wouldn't go into ANY detail other than
1. They "had to do it". and
2. and it won't fit the TC Motors because of the CKP.
That is all
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
Are you saying that they are not going to make the M8 anymore? If so where did you get that info?
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
Thank you for the MORE input on the subject however the filter update still sounds silly, regardless of reasons.
Ron
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
Being i work in the corporate offices of another major m/c manufacturer i am questioning this.
My guess is the engineers have seen some early failures for whatever reason. They probably decided that
stuffing in more filter media may "fix" the issue during the warranty period.
If the oil capacity was off, they could/should provide a new dipstick or issue a revised manual with the proper quantities.
Another reason could be the contract expired with the filter manufacturer and the new manufacture and HD may have made an agreement and the filter .
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
So they spent untold money to develop the M8 and will only have it around for a few yrs? An engine when left stock meets all EPA requirements. They then spent even more money and developed this new 131", again, meeting all EPA requirements when left stock. Now they're going to ditch it? Makes no sense for a company that is struggling badly and will be even more so with this current Pandemic.
Quote from: Nastytls on March 20, 2020, 12:53:07 PM
So they spent untold money to develop the M8 and will only have it around for a few yrs? An engine when left stock meets all EPA requirements. They then spent even more money and developed this new 131", again, meeting all EPA requirements when left stock. Now they're going to ditch it? Makes no sense for a company that is struggling badly and will be even more so with this current Pandemic.
You beat me to it! :wtf: Harley has historically, starting with the Knuckle, (didn't consider anything prior) maintained a engine line between 12 and a whopping 19 years for the Shovel. ( counting 84 for those fleet sales)
Long Live the Shovel :chop:
And all of a sudden they're going to abandon the M8 after a 5 and a half year production run given the "18 months" whatever is coming about???
With all due respect I have to verify the funds before I take any of that to the bank.
More internet gossip. I don't believe there is any chance of that being true. He didn't say in what capacity his friend worked at the "mothership", could be the janitor.
And then as Paul Harvey would say..."Stay Tuned for News" then in 18 months it'll be..."Now you know the Rest of the Story"
Well the rumor mill has turned out this design. :wink: It is said to be an upgrade to allow higher RPM. Even if it's only introduced to the Sportster unit engine that it seems to be suited for (and at this point has no 4 valve offering), it would be enough of a redesign to call it a "new engine". Remember that some of the previous new engine designs were only heads (and in some cases barrels due to bolt pattern).
There seems to be a Softail image out there of one but maybe that's a sporty platform with a new suspension. There, I stated a new rumor about Sportsters.
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/patent-filing-reveals-new-harley-davidson-pushrod-engine-design.html
Nothing really earth shattering new in this design. Maybe for HD but it's been around in that form for many years in other engines.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on March 21, 2020, 07:23:15 AM
Nothing really earth shattering new in this design. Maybe for HD but it's been around in that form for many years in other engines.
Ron
To many, that would be a new engine design. Remember that the 69 shovel heads and barrels (1970 up had the crankcase and chg'ing system change) were almost all that was different to the 36 knucklehead engine. That's 3 so called new engine designs in a 33 year span that were only to the top end.
Quote from: sandrooney on March 20, 2020, 04:23:42 PM
More internet gossip. I don't believe there is any chance of that being true. He didn't say in what capacity his friend worked at the "mothership", could be the janitor.
What's this direct injected engine?
[attach=0]
Quote from: kd on March 21, 2020, 07:59:29 AM
To many, that would be a new engine design. Remember that the 69 shovel heads and barrels (1970 up had the crankcase and chg'ing system change) were almost all that was different to the 36 knucklehead engine. That's 3 so called new engine designs in a 33 year span that were only to the top end.
Along with that. It'll come to me where I read it, either a article or book. But one of the engineers involved with the Evolution pretty much scoffed at it being called Evolution.
Because he said all they did was redesign the top end on the Shovel. :idunno:
M1510 (and others) is in the Section
My M8 is awesome. Not one motor or oil related issue. I had a noisy belt which I fixed and a leaking vapor valve fixed under warranty, other that it's been a great bike.
Quote from: sandrooney on March 24, 2020, 04:00:06 AM
My M8 is awesome. Not one motor or oil related issue. I had a noisy belt which I fixed and a leaking vapor valve fixed under warranty, other that it's been a great bike.
That's totally opposite of my experience with a still oil migrating tranny [ to be fair not as much w/vent installed, but still no oil on the dip stick at 2,500 miles. Use to be 10oz at 300-500 miles. HD and dealer calls it fixed ] and maybe still sumping 2018 STOCK M8. This bike has had the last 2 oil pumps Hd put out so I don't know if this latest and greatest sump pump is going to solve this M8's sumping issue. Warranty over on 2 - 2020. But like Harley, this forum doesn't want to hear an unsatisfied costumers opinion with 54 years of HD experience. That's why they delete post at their discretion. I'm sure that this post or I will be next for deletion but you will never delete the Harley Image I bought for 30K. Only I can delete that. To think, all that being said and not one, what did you call it, POTTY MOUTH! Now that's funny "Potty mouth".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdZtVnCGO0I
Quote from: Nastytls on March 20, 2020, 12:53:07 PM
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
So they spent untold money to develop the M8 and will only have it around for a few yrs? An engine when left stock meets all EPA requirements. They then spent even more money and developed this new 131", again, meeting all EPA requirements when left stock. Now they're going to ditch it? Makes no sense for a company that is struggling badly and will be even more so with this current Pandemic.
H-D better do something because the Indian Challenger makes my RK look like a piece of s#!t, and I'm going to buy one when the 2021 models come out. Yes, I'll still keep my 124" as my hot rod.
Can the new M8 filter be used on Twin Cams that don't have CKP interference. For example I'm running a relocated oil filter on my front left down tube.
Quote from: Bagger on May 15, 2020, 10:06:55 AM
Can the new M8 filter be used on Twin Cams that don't have CKP interference. For example I'm running a relocated oil filter on my front left down tube.
Sure.
Ron
Quote from: les on May 08, 2020, 09:57:39 AM
Quote from: Nastytls on March 20, 2020, 12:53:07 PM
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
So they spent untold money to develop the M8 and will only have it around for a few yrs? An engine when left stock meets all EPA requirements. They then spent even more money and developed this new 131", again, meeting all EPA requirements when left stock. Now they're going to ditch it? Makes no sense for a company that is struggling badly and will be even more so with this current Pandemic.
H-D better do something because the Indian Challenger makes my RK look like a piece of s#!t, and I'm going to buy one when the 2021 models come out. Yes, I'll still keep my 124" as my hot rod.
If your looking at a Challenger for long distance riding you might be disappointed. I test rode one for about an hour. The ergonomics for me were awful. Would take expensive seat and handlebar mods at the very least for me. Of course YMMV.
Quote from: IronButt70 on May 15, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: les on May 08, 2020, 09:57:39 AM
Quote from: Nastytls on March 20, 2020, 12:53:07 PM
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
So they spent untold money to develop the M8 and will only have it around for a few yrs? An engine when left stock meets all EPA requirements. They then spent even more money and developed this new 131", again, meeting all EPA requirements when left stock. Now they're going to ditch it? Makes no sense for a company that is struggling badly and will be even more so with this current Pandemic.
H-D better do something because the Indian Challenger makes my RK look like a piece of s#!t, and I'm going to buy one when the 2021 models come out. Yes, I'll still keep my 124" as my hot rod.
If your looking at a Challenger for long distance riding you might be disappointed. I test rode one for about an hour. The ergonomics for me were awful. Would take expensive seat and handlebar mods at the very least for me. Of course YMMV.
Kind of like the very expensive mods I had to make to get my Road Glide comfortable.... The HD Bars and seat are terrible and floorboards are only a little better but still need adjustment/replacement for larger ones. Not sure how many people actually leave that stuff stock anyway, but it's certainly isn't a reason to avoid buying any bike.
Quote from: Nastytls on May 16, 2020, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: IronButt70 on May 15, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: les on May 08, 2020, 09:57:39 AM
Quote from: Nastytls on March 20, 2020, 12:53:07 PM
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 19, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 19, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
So, when would the EPA want more of anything? In this case more oil. Sounds like a bs answer to me.
Ron
His answers arn't BS as you say.
I've known him for almost 23 years. He's ALWAYS given me spot-on information.
Just because I can't share it here (I do have a Job), doesn't mean he's spreading BS. I understand 100% of what he's saying. Why don't you check the Capasity Listed in your Manual, then compare what it holds when you service it (wet) and see what you come up with. Then look at the difference, then compare it to what the new filter holds - Do the math.
You have no idea whatsoever how far the EPA is up the rear of H-D. Here is another one you can look for..... No more M8 shortly.............. It's in development and will be in the Market in eighteen months or less. That's how far the EPA is up their six. Take it to the Bank!
So they spent untold money to develop the M8 and will only have it around for a few yrs? An engine when left stock meets all EPA requirements. They then spent even more money and developed this new 131", again, meeting all EPA requirements when left stock. Now they're going to ditch it? Makes no sense for a company that is struggling badly and will be even more so with this current Pandemic.
H-D better do something because the Indian Challenger makes my RK look like a piece of s#!t, and I'm going to buy one when the 2021 models come out. Yes, I'll still keep my 124" as my hot rod.
If your looking at a Challenger for long distance riding you might be disappointed. I test rode one for about an hour. The ergonomics for me were awful. Would take expensive seat and handlebar mods at the very least for me. Of course YMMV.
Kind of like the very expensive mods I had to make to get my Road Glide comfortable.... The HD Bars and seat are terrible and floorboards are only a little better but still need adjustment/replacement for larger ones. Not sure how many people actually leave that stuff stock anyway, but it's certainly isn't a reason to avoid buying any bike.
:up: :up: :agree:
The seating position on my Harleys I have owned is the best thing I can say about them. The factory seat and handlebar location is close to perfect for me. Now if they could get a suspension under it and a better driveline!
The driveline is what it is, we know that going in, I agree on the suspension being less than ideal. But the lack of travel on the suspension is the reason I can touch my feet on the ground. Compromises.
You rented an RT in Europe. Did you wear high heels to touch the ground on it?
Plus, looking at a HD bagger, there is room to add some more suspension travel if they wanted to. It would screw with the fender and the looks of the bike, so I am guessing looks wins!
Of course looks win! How much gets spent on chrome verses suspension and ergonomics by owners?
And I really could have used some high heels on that RT, it was a tippy-toe adventure! Lowering kit on both my bikes, still not completely flat foot, but plenty stable. Tippy-toe on a 560 pound bike worked, tippy-toe on a 900 pound pig, a little more exciting....
Quote from: PoorUB on May 16, 2020, 11:42:30 AM
You rented an RT in Europe. Did you wear high heels to touch the ground on it?
Plus, looking at a HD bagger, there is room to add some more suspension travel if they wanted to. It would screw with the fender and the looks of the bike, so I am guessing looks wins!
It would only ruin the "looks" at rest, unladen. And that of course is enough reason for Harley not to do it.
My 20 year old Honda dual sport rides like a dream on the street compared to my bagger. Why? It has 12" travel front & rear. Thing is, if set correctly it sags 4" when I sit on it. At rest it looks like you need a ladder to get on it, but once seated @5'9" I'm on the balls of both feet. Same thing could be done with a Harley. But not and look like a Duo Glide.
Quote from: PoorUB on May 16, 2020, 10:37:19 AM
The seating position on my Harleys I have owned is the best thing I can say about them. The factory seat and handlebar location is close to perfect for me. Now if they could get a suspension under it and a better driveline!
There's the rub, right. A terrible rider interface for me and nearly perfect for you. It's impossible to build something that's ideal for everyone; one of the many reasons I just don't understand CVO's. To me, one of the great things about motorcycles is that what you buy off the showroom is a ( very expensive ) blank canvas, take it home and start making it yours.
Quote from: Nastytls on May 18, 2020, 07:58:23 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on May 16, 2020, 10:37:19 AM
The seating position on my Harleys I have owned is the best thing I can say about them. The factory seat and handlebar location is close to perfect for me. Now if they could get a suspension under it and a better driveline!
There's the rub, right. A terrible rider interface for me and nearly perfect for you. It's impossible to build something that's ideal for everyone; one of the many reasons I just don't understand CVO's. To me, one of the great things about motorcycles is that what you buy off the showroom is a ( very expensive ) blank canvas, take it home and start making it yours.
When I started buying CVO's was in 09. I had more money in my Fatboy the the cost of a New CVO, but it was worth the same money in trade as any other Fatboy of the same year. So I bought a CVO Road Glide, added less then 1K in stuff to the bike to make it comfortable. I traded it in 11 for a 12 CVO Road Glide. I got 5K less in trade than I paid for the bike, with 47,000 miles on it. Did the same with the 12.
Now days I'm probably on my last CVO for several reason. 1. Quality has gone down year after year. 2. Value of the new bike for the money has gone down year after year. 3. Resale has tanked for the reasons above plus now they make more in each color than the did of all colors in 09.
Still on a Harley touring bike as is most comfortable fit for me, and there are dealers everywhere un like the other brands.
25K service last week, local dealer still did not have new M8 filter.