HarleyTechTalk

Nice, that torque comes up early and makes a bunch of it. I bet that will be a ball to ride.

holy smokes 

    That's really looking good. Good going Jamie.

In our second round of Milwaukee 8 cam testing we put the same SIX different bolt in camshafts to the test that were in our H-D Milwaukee Eight 107 cam shootout last month, however for this test we installed them in the Milwaukee Eight 114. Our test bike was a 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy 114" Milwaukee Eight and the bike was equipped with a Fuel Moto AC/DC Stage 1 air cleaner, stock head pipes with non-catalyst slip on mufflers, and each cam was fully tuned with the Dynojet Power Vision. The following cams were part of this test:
Andrews M460
Cycle-Rama 460
S&S Cycle 475C
Wood Performance-WM8-22X
Zipper's Red Shift 468
Wood Performance WM8-222
The first dyno chart below has all six of the camshafts overlaid to show their respective torque and horsepower relative to this particular set of components. All of the camshafts in our test offered excellent performance increases over that of the stock camshaft, most interesting is each cam took on a bit more of its own direction with the larger displacement 114" engine compared to the 107" test. As we started our test we found immediately that the exhaust we originally planned to test with was not up to the standards we were looking for, we spent the first day working on exhaust systems, baffles, and different setup before we came up with a combination that would work for our testing. We also found the stock Ventilator air cleaner was not sufficient, so we replaced it with the Fuel Moto AC/DC Stage 1 (stay tuned for a future M8 air cleaner test).





Andrews M460 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Moderate
Description: The M460 cam makes broad power that comes on relatively early and pulls well to the upper RPM's as well. Smooth idle.




Cycle Rama CR-460 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Moderate
Description: The Cycle Rama 460 was strong on both HP and Tq, it has a very broad curve and great mid range characteristics. Excellent response.





S&S Cycle 475C Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Aggressive
Description: The S&S 475C again made the second best peak HP in our testing, however the 114 torque curve was even better than the 107 test. Idle was not as aggressive as in the 107, likely because of the different exhaust orientation. A great candidate for a big bore application.




Wood WM8-22X Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Aggressive
Description: The WM8-22X camshaft made the most torque overall, this cam drives big torque early on and lots of it. Very strong low-mid RPM response. Strong idle lope.





Zipper's Red Shift 468 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Semi-Aggressive
Description: The Red Shift 468 again placed in the middle of our test for both peak torque and horsepower. It has really broad power, nice and flat through the RPM range. It has great idle lope.





Wood WM8-222 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Moderate
Description: The WM8-222 made the best overall peak horsepower. It made less early-mid torque than the other cams, curve is very broad. This cam likes to rev and is also a great cam to build into for future mods such as a 117 big bore where it really shines.

              Jamie thanks for your hard work.   

 Thanks for posting this

Sorry we have not been posting updates, running beyond the limiter at the moment. Here are a few dyno charts of the WM8-22X cam from installs the last few days.

A couple weeks back we went thru another full round of 120 M8 testing, we made significant gains from where where we were at with the exhaust system we tested. This is the final prototype "XXX" hi output head pipe; as we have been stating all along these motors are WAY picky on exhaust.

Wow, that 120 is making almost 160 horsepower? That is amazing.

looks awesome 

what clutch upgrades are you putting in these bikes? 

It says Jackpot mufflers, so I'm guessing this is with a 2-1-2.  Are finding that the 2-1-2 are working better than 2-1 on the M8?

    Looking good. This is progress in the right direction.

We installed the Fuel Moto 124 10.8 comp big bore kit on our 2018 Softail. We used the Wood WM8-222 cam (was already in the motor), stock heads & TB, 5.5 injectors, D&D Fatcat 2/1 and tuned it with Dynojet Power Vision. Big power gains for a piston/cylinder kit, cam, pipe & tune. Next up we're going to replace the throttle body & retest, then cylinder heads.

Jamie, been looking at the S&S and Redshift cams for my 107, are you seeing sumping issues while running these pulls on the dyno? I am seeing some sumping issues and a 2500+ RPM vibration, and do not want to make matters any worse by upping the torque so I can twist the throttle more until we figure out what is going on with the sumping and the vibration.

Quote from: Helmwurst on October 01, 2018, 04:32:37 AM
Jamie, been looking at the S&S and Redshift cams for my 107, are you seeing sumping issues while running these pulls on the dyno? I am seeing some sumping issues and a 2500+ RPM vibration, and do not want to make matters any worse by upping the torque so I can twist the throttle more until we figure out what is going on with the sumping and the vibration.

Between the 2017 Road Glide & 2018 Softail we own FM has tested more than a dozen cams in each engine, developed our big bore kits & other products, accumulated 10,000 street miles, and made in the thousands of dyno runs. We've had zero issues; no sumping or any other issues. Both motors are still using the stock cam plates & pumps as they were delivered from the factory. Zero issues thus far. 

Quote from: Jamie Long on October 03, 2018, 01:55:40 PM

Quote from: Helmwurst on October 01, 2018, 04:32:37 AM
Jamie, been looking at the S&S and Redshift cams for my 107, are you seeing sumping issues while running these pulls on the dyno? I am seeing some sumping issues and a 2500+ RPM vibration, and do not want to make matters any worse by upping the torque so I can twist the throttle more until we figure out what is going on with the sumping and the vibration.

Between the 2017 Road Glide & 2018 Softail we own FM has tested more than a dozen cams in each engine, developed our big bore kits & other products, accumulated 10,000 street miles, and made in the thousands of dyno runs. We've had zero issues; no sumping or any other issues. Both motors are still using the stock cam plates & pumps as they were delivered from the factory. Zero issues thus far.

That is promising information.

In our latest test we added a set of FM Level A CNC heads (CNC ported from seat to the guide, valve job, hi-lift springs) and a 64mm TB with ported manifold.

very impressive - nicely done

2017 CVO Street Glide; FM 124 big bore kit with factory bored cylinders, Wood WM8-408 cam, SE64mm TB with CNC ported manifold. He's running the Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe, Street Outlaw mufflers, and we tuned it with Dynojet Power Vision. We used the stock heads with Wood valve springs in this build.

  Nice work right there.
STOCK HEADS 

Quote from: Jamie Long on November 20, 2018, 11:53:51 AM
2017 CVO Street Glide; FM 124 big bore kit with factory bored cylinders, Wood WM8-408 cam, SE64mm TB with CNC ported manifold. He's running the Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe, Street Outlaw mufflers, and we tuned it with Dynojet Power Vision. We used the stock heads with Wood valve springs in this build.

Is this a 128" with the CVO 4.5" stroke?

With a CVO 4.5" stroke this would be 128 cubic inches.

Quote from: Jamie Long on November 20, 2018, 11:53:51 AM
2017 CVO Street Glide; FM 124 big bore kit with factory bored cylinders, Wood WM8-408 cam, SE64mm TB with CNC ported manifold. He's running the Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe, Street Outlaw mufflers, and we tuned it with Dynojet Power Vision. We used the stock heads with Wood valve springs in this build.

Based on this and your earlier chart of a 124 with your FM CNC heads, it looks like your CNC heads aren't any better than stock (and maybe worse).  I'd like to hear your theory on what's the deal with that.  At this point it certainly doesn't look like porting the heads really offers anything.

did you look at post #66?

I must be missing something

Quote from: hdrider on November 25, 2018, 08:35:18 PM

Based on this and your earlier chart of a 124 with your FM CNC heads, it looks like your CNC heads aren't any better than stock (and maybe worse).  I'd like to hear your theory on what's the deal with that.  At this point it certainly doesn't look like porting the heads really offers anything.

Quote from: sfmichael on November 26, 2018, 01:22:14 AM
did you look at post #66?

I must be missing something

I think you both missed.

Apples to oranges, two different bikes, different cams, unknown CCP,  different exhaust systems, the only thing that appears they have in common is the 124 ci displacement.
This thread has changed from testing, to examples of different build combinations. Still some good info but easily misunderstood.