Am looking at a 2012 Softail Deluxe that has true duals installed instead of the stock right side over/under pipes. Noticed that the configuration of the left side pipe (rear cyl.) is pretty weird. Am wondering if this will hurt performance, cause heat issues etc. Anyone have experience or knowledge relating to this? Your help, as always, is greatly appreciated. :scratch:
The simple answer is yes.
The question is how much will it affect you and that will be up to your riding style, hp expectations, level of OCD. Many will chime in with how happy they are with running them.
It is like 3:00am in the bar, they are all pickers if you just lower your expectations.
Softail duals, left and right, are a disaster. Never seen a system that works
Thanks guys. Looking at the gyrations (bends) in the rear cyl. header kinda raised a red flag. You guys confirmed what I suspected. So should it land in my garage I need to figure new headers and dyno tune, prob. $1500 in all. OUCH! That's going to leave a mark where my wallet usually is.
Quote from: Ironpig9 on December 15, 2018, 07:53:08 PM
Thanks guys. Looking at the gyrations (bends) in the rear cyl. header kinda raised a red flag. You guys confirmed what I suspected. So should it land in my garage I need to figure new headers and dyno tune, prob. $1500 in all. OUCH! That's going to leave a mark where my wallet usually is.
Don't forget that the true duals are wildly popular with the classic crowd that puts looks over power and do not read HTT. I know many guys that have pulled them off used bikes and sold them, in good shape they can bring over .60 on the dollar compared to their new price.
Does the owner still have the stock pipes that could be reinstalled?
Didn't want to hi-hack the thread but since it seems to have run its course:
How bad are they? The previous owner of my 2007 had replaced a set of v&h true duals with stock. When I bought it, he threw them in with the sale. I have been flip-flopping on whether or not to install. I had been resisting because of the volume. I have read that they cost a little power without the cross over but how much of a loss is there? Or are they other issues?
I like the symetry out the back and was seriously considering installing in the spring. I also have a power commander with what is supposed to be a proper tune. Maybe I should skip the Duals and look for a better-than-stock tune for the stock pipes.
Quote from: NCHeritage07 on December 16, 2018, 12:18:11 PM
Didn't want to hi-hack the thread but since it seems to have run its course:
How bad are they? The previous owner of my 2007 had replaced a set of v&h true duals with stock. When I bought it, he threw them in with the sale. I have been flip-flopping on whether or not to install. I had been resisting because of the volume. I have read that they cost a little power without the cross over but how much of a loss is there? Or are they other issues?
I like the symetry out the back and was seriously considering installing in the spring. I also have a power commander with what is supposed to be a proper tune. Maybe I should skip the Duals and look for a better-than-stock tune for the stock pipes.
If you have them with the Power Commander already tuned, you might as well give them a try and see if they work for you. Free testing is part of the appeal of owning these goofy things.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 16, 2018, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: NCHeritage07 on December 16, 2018, 12:18:11 PM
Didn't want to hi-hack the thread but since it seems to have run its course:
How bad are they? The previous owner of my 2007 had replaced a set of v&h true duals with stock. When I bought it, he threw them in with the sale. I have been flip-flopping on whether or not to install. I had been resisting because of the volume. I have read that they cost a little power without the cross over but how much of a loss is there? Or are they other issues?
I like the symetry out the back and was seriously considering installing in the spring. I also have a power commander with what is supposed to be a proper tune. Maybe I should skip the Duals and look for a better-than-stock tune for the stock pipes.
If you have them with the Power Commander already tuned, you might as well give them a try and see if they work for you. Free testing is part of the appeal of owning these goofy things.
Hoss I would respectfully disagree with that suggestion. The power Commander is a bad way to try and fool a closed loop ECM and can make many ranges worse than if you run the stock ECM cal which is also a bad idea.
NCHeritage07, Find a place to get a Power Vision license and tune, it is really the best bang for the buck. If you want to buy a tuner then TTS, Direct link, or Power Vision are your choices.
Quote from: 1FSTRK on December 16, 2018, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 16, 2018, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: NCHeritage07 on December 16, 2018, 12:18:11 PM
Didn't want to hi-hack the thread but since it seems to have run its course:
How bad are they? The previous owner of my 2007 had replaced a set of v&h true duals with stock. When I bought it, he threw them in with the sale. I have been flip-flopping on whether or not to install. I had been resisting because of the volume. I have read that they cost a little power without the cross over but how much of a loss is there? Or are they other issues?
I like the symetry out the back and was seriously considering installing in the spring. I also have a power commander with what is supposed to be a proper tune. Maybe I should skip the Duals and look for a better-than-stock tune for the stock pipes.
If you have them with the Power Commander already tuned, you might as well give them a try and see if they work for you. Free testing is part of the appeal of owning these goofy things.
Hoss I would respectfully disagree with that suggestion. The power Commander is a bad way to try and fool a closed loop ECM and can make many ranges worse than if you run the stock ECM cal which is also a bad idea.
NCHeritage07, Find a place to get a Power Vision license and tune, it is really the best bang for the buck. If you want to buy a tuner then TTS, Direct link, or Power Vision are your choices.
The only reason I suggested it is because the PC is "tuned". I agree that it is not the ideal way to do it, but just for my curiosity, I would at least have to give it a try.
The real problem is that the PC probably isn't really tuned, but only has a canned map installed.
I'd still have to give it a try, just to hear the pipes to see if I like them, then go for a real tune.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 16, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: 1FSTRK on December 16, 2018, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 16, 2018, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: NCHeritage07 on December 16, 2018, 12:18:11 PM
Didn't want to hi-hack the thread but since it seems to have run its course:
How bad are they? The previous owner of my 2007 had replaced a set of v&h true duals with stock. When I bought it, he threw them in with the sale. I have been flip-flopping on whether or not to install. I had been resisting because of the volume. I have read that they cost a little power without the cross over but how much of a loss is there? Or are they other issues?
I like the symetry out the back and was seriously considering installing in the spring. I also have a power commander with what is supposed to be a proper tune. Maybe I should skip the Duals and look for a better-than-stock tune for the stock pipes.
If you have them with the Power Commander already tuned, you might as well give them a try and see if they work for you. Free testing is part of the appeal of owning these goofy things.
Hoss I would respectfully disagree with that suggestion. The power Commander is a bad way to try and fool a closed loop ECM and can make many ranges worse than if you run the stock ECM cal which is also a bad idea.
NCHeritage07, Find a place to get a Power Vision license and tune, it is really the best bang for the buck. If you want to buy a tuner then TTS, Direct link, or Power Vision are your choices.
The only reason I suggested it is because the PC is "tuned". I agree that it is not the ideal way to do it, but just for my curiosity, I would at least have to give it a try.
The real problem is that the PC probably isn't really tuned, but only has a canned map installed.
I'd still have to give it a try, just to hear the pipes to see if I like them, then go for a real tune.
Ok fair enough.
The thing is the PC can never be really tuned, it is an Alpha-N piggyback trying to fool a Closed loop Speed Density system. They were the first try at an EFI tuner and developed on a open loop system at that. The ve and timing numbers can only be set by throttle position vs rpm so they are only correct at one map load, the one they were tuned at, go up a hill or down a hill and they are wrong. Also they are only correct a one temperature.
Good point Hoss. I checked several Yrs ago to see how much it would cost to replace that pipe if I had to. It cost $800 back then so it's a fairly good idea to hang on to those old pipes with the 02 sensors in them.
PC
Quote from: Hossamania on December 16, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
The real problem is that the PC probably isn't really tuned, but only has a canned map installed.
It probably IS a canned map. I was able to open/view the map and in the discription it looks pretty general. It lists some aftermarket pipes and a more open filter but nothing specific and no indication of a human's touch on this specific tune.
I may go ahead with the install, as you said, just to see how they sound. If I lose a little power but get a sweeter sound, I will be OK with that. I must be the increased age but I rarely pull more than 1/2 throttle even during what would be considered a spirited (for me) ride through the mountian roads around me.
Is it the lack of a crossover pipe or all the bends of the rear pipe that is a problem for these true duals?
I have done a little more research on the Powervision and its a leap I may take once riding season is back in full swing.
Kind of like trying to run a marathon breathing only through a straw- you may finish the race, but no where near the front of the pack...
For reference, race cars run a crossover (drag strip cars not included). There's a reason they do.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 20, 2018, 07:32:08 AM
For reference, race cars run a crossover (drag strip cars not included). There's a reason they do.
Hoss the many Street/stock class drag cars have been running an X pipe for over 20 years. The first working X pipes I saw were in the engine dyno shop on NHRA cars in the late 90's.
Quote from: 1FSTRK on December 20, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 20, 2018, 07:32:08 AM
For reference, race cars run a crossover (drag strip cars not included). There's a reason they do.
Hoss the many Street/stock class drag cars have been running an X pipe for over 20 years. The first working X pipes I saw were in the engine dyno shop on NHRA cars in the late 90's.
Good to know, it makes sense.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 20, 2018, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: 1FSTRK on December 20, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 20, 2018, 07:32:08 AM
For reference, race cars run a crossover (drag strip cars not included). There's a reason they do.
Hoss the many Street/stock class drag cars have been running an X pipe for over 20 years. The first working X pipes I saw were in the engine dyno shop on NHRA cars in the late 90's.
Good to know, it makes sense.
On the other hand Harley had a production X pipe in the 70"s.
I installed V&H true duals on my '15 slim an I didn't notice a performance drop off...but I did a V&H FP3 flash with the exhaust an the better tune could have improved overall performance. I really liked the look, sound an performance of the bike but the heat on my left leg was bad so I pulled the shield an wrapped that section of pipe an put the cover back on. I have the complete exhaust off that slim still...can't give it away! If you buy it an want to go stock I'll hook you up.