What do you guys think about using anti-seize on the spark plug threads? I use just a lil dab from a stick when I change the plugs on my 12 FLHTK. I haven't had any problems yet.
freddie_ray
Use it all the time.
Yep.
Many do. Even though spark plug manufacturers say DON'T. Silly spark plug manufacturers, what the hell do they know about spark plugs?
:SM:
-JW
"A little dab 'ill do ya." Remember that commercial? Yea, I use it too, before antisieze I lightly oiled the threads. You sure don't want to be removing material from the head when you take them out.
I use anti-seize on spark plugs on every engine I own. It takes only one time to pull the threads, or have a seized spark plug before you realize it is a great idea.
I owned a Ford F150 with a 300. They were famous for the spark plugs to seize in the head. I have seen guys use a 1/2" breaker bar and a piece of pipe to remove spark plugs from a 300. A dab of anti-seize and they come out with a 3/3" ratchet and one hand.
When using anti seize don't be heavy handed and put to much on, you only need a light smear on the first few threads as it will work around threads when the plugs are screwed in.
I use Permatex anti seize and tighten plugs to 12-18 ft-lbs (16.3-24.4 Nm).
Other options:
Loctite Anti-Seize 37617 also in a Silver Grade.
Typical Applications: For easy removal of spark
plugs, cylinder head and exhaust head bolts.
Loctite Anti-Seize 37616 in a Copper Grade.
Typical Applications: Spark plug threads installed
in aluminum, exhaust manifold bolts, engine bolts,
thermostat housing bolts, oxygen sensors, battery
cable connections.
I was unaware that plug manufacturers advise against it. Does anyone know what their rationale is for that..??
For myself...I never go without it. I'm using Permatex Silver since the 1970's. No issues. When I install a plug, after applying the little dab to the threads...I sort of smear it into the threads just a little, then screw the plug in, and back out (just by hand...no tools..) to get the anti-seize uniformly distributed on the threads before screwing it back in and torquing it down.
I always dab a spot of Copper anti seize on spark plug threads on every service. New plugs, re- gapped plugs. its good for the job.
QuoteI was unaware that plug manufacturers advise against it. Does anyone know what their rationale is for that..??
I was also unaware of that but I can think of a couple of reasons they might say that. One being too much antisieze being used could potentially cause the excess to migrate to the electrode area during installation with subsequent fouling or residue cooking during operation. The other would be heat transfer. A spark plug cools itself to some extent by being screwed into the head with the shoulder taper (or crush washer) being in intimate contact with the metal of the head (at least I think I read this somewhere, may be total BS). Anyway I could see if maybe excess antisieze could impede this function. However, either scenario would be unlikely unless the installer used way too much. Use just a little, I like the copper. And anytime I have needed to remove the plugs to service something I don't put more back on when reinstalling them. The original application seems to stay on the threads just fine.
I use copper anti seize on spark plugs.
I use silver because I bought a jar 25 years ago and I still have at least a 1/4 left of it. Turns out, it still gets everywhere when I just look at it, much less actually use it.
Modern spark plugs have thread coatings to prevent galling, no need for anti seize.
Quote from: guido4198 on February 12, 2020, 01:33:52 AM
I was unaware that plug manufacturers advise against it. Does anyone know what their rationale is for that..??
The spark plug manufacturers rationale is that they coat the threads with a sacrificial coating, making anti seize unnecessary, sounds reasonable to me.
There is no requirement for anti seize on spark plug threads in the 2019 M8 service manual.
Champion 2612 spark plug anti-seize, I believe it is Graphite based. Use this or any other like it, no problems.
R Meyer
Quote from: guido4198 on February 12, 2020, 01:33:52 AM
I was unaware that plug manufacturers advise against it. Does anyone know what their rationale is for that..??
For myself...I never go without it. I'm using Permatex Silver since the 1970's. No issues. When I install a plug, after applying the little dab to the threads...I sort of smear it into the threads just a little, then screw the plug in, and back out (just by hand...no tools..) to get the anti-seize uniformly distributed on the threads before screwing it back in and torquing it down.
I'm certainly not an engineer or spark plug expert but I was under the impression that rationale for not using antisieze caused the knock sensing to not operate as it should. Could be an old wifes tale for all i know. BTW - I always use a dab of antisieze when installing plugs - better safe than sorry......
FWIW... From NGK website:
1. Anti-seize
NGK spark plugs feature what is known as trivalent plating. This silver- or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without the use of anti-seize. NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage.
I've read that most spark plug makers these days have a similar coating...
I still put a dab on my plugs, but just a little. If I use anti-seize, I "snug" them up, don't torque them at OEM specs due to the risk of overtightening..
Quote from: hattitude on February 12, 2020, 09:57:03 AM
FWIW... From NGK website:
1. Anti-seize
NGK spark plugs feature what is known as trivalent plating. This silver- or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without the use of anti-seize. NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage.[/color]
:agree:
Well, duh! Most people way over tighten spark plugs anyway. I "choke up" on the ratchet and just snug. Never had one loosen.
Quote from: PoorUB on February 12, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Well, duh! Most people way over tighten spark plugs anyway. I "choke up" on the ratchet and just snug. Never had one loosen.
same with lug nuts. And I'm guilty of it too.
Is it better to remove plugs from a warm engine ? Or a cold engine ?
In an aluminum head you should remove and replace the spark plugs cold. If the plug gets harder to turn as you are backing it out, spray some penetrating oil on the threads and let it soak to loosen the carbon build up. Forcing it when it doesn't want to turn can ruin the threads in the head.
Quote from: Geezer_Glider on February 12, 2020, 09:44:14 AM
Champion 2612 spark plug anti-seize, I believe it is Graphite based. Use this or any other like it, no problems.
R Meyer
Read on..... [attach=0]
Let`s read on some more...
The 2019 Service Manual says threads to be clean and dry.
From a legitimate Factory Service Manual, 2019:
Quote from: Dan89flstc on February 15, 2020, 06:39:36 AM
Let`s read on some more...
The 2019 Service Manual says threads to be clean and dry.
From a legitimate Factory Service Manual, 2019:
Factory Service Manual is first item I buy after getting a bike.
Accept it as gospel ? Naah !
One day when your threads from the head come out with the spark plug you will wish you had put some anti-seize on the threads :hyst:
Quote from: Scotty on February 15, 2020, 01:56:49 PM
One day when your threads from the head come out with the spark plug you will wish you had put some anti-seize on the threads :hyst:
I use it when the service manual says to, and I don`t use it when it specifically calls for clean dry threads...
I`ll take my chances and follow the service manual.
The service manual is probably assuming you're installing new plugs which don't need it. If re installing used plugs, I always use a dab.
Quote from: Coyote on February 15, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
The service manual is probably assuming you're installing new plugs which don't need it. If re installing used plugs, I always use a dab.
The service manual is clear:
The first step says: Verify proper gap before installing new or used spark plugs.
The second step says: Verify threads are clean and dry.
This thread is really splitting hairs, almost to the point of ridiculousness. My 99 SM does not address the issue at all. I have a PDF version of a 2006 touring manual and it says to use the antisieze. Anyway I looked other places for some information on the internet and found a plethora of opinions, blogs etc. but here are some things that seem like they might be valid. NGK claims the trivalent coating does not require antizieze and can throw off the torque values by 20% but they also say the coating is sacrificed when the plug is removed. If you remove them you might want to use a little antisiese and if you torque them go to 83% of the value. I think that math is right as 1/1.2 = .83. Autolight also does not recommend it but they say it is possible to contaminate the electrode. They also mention the torque issue. But I did find one article that recommends using antisieze on plugs with black metal threads. I know I have seen some like that (AC Delco) maybe because these don't have any plating on the threads. I still think you will be fine using just a little of it on any of them and being careful with your torque procedure. I have never used a torque wrench installing plugs. And I also don't believe everything I read in my service manual as gospel, especially when I find contradictory information in other sources.
Quote from: smoserx1 on February 16, 2020, 07:15:00 AM
This thread is really splitting hairs, almost to the point of ridiculousness. My 99 SM does not address the issue at all. I have a PDF version of a 2006 touring manual and it says to use the antisieze. Anyway I looked other places for some information on the internet and found a plethora of opinions, blogs etc. but here are some things that seem like they might be valid. NGK claims the trivalent coating does not require antizieze and can throw off the torque values by 20% but they also say the coating is sacrificed when the plug is removed. If you remove them you might want to use a little antisiese and if you torque them go to 83% of the value. I think that math is right as 1/1.2 = .83. Autolight also does not recommend it but they say it is possible to contaminate the electrode. They also mention the torque issue. But I did find one article that recommends using antisieze on plugs with black metal threads. I know I have seen some like that (AC Delco) maybe because these don't have any plating on the threads. I still think you will be fine using just a little of it on any of them and being careful with your torque procedure. I have never used a torque wrench installing plugs. And I also don't believe everything I read in my service manual as gospel, especially when I find contradictory information in other sources.
:up:
good post
service manual refers to a bike in stock condition with stock parts
spark plug gaps refer to stock plugs
tire pressures relate to OEM tires
fluid quantities relate to zero modification chambers
torque specs relate to OEM parts
instructions in a service manual do not always translate to a different year/model
A service manual is a guide not a bible
Anti seize, seat the plug, 1/4 turn. Come out easy and never get loose.