HarleyTechTalk

I plan on installing a Fueling oil pump in my 2017 M8 RGS. In all the videos I've watched and research I've done they always talk about removing the push rods to do this.  Stupid question.  If I'm not going to change the cam shaft and or removing it from the engine block while changing the oil pump, why do I need to removed the push rods? 

Quote from: usraptr on July 08, 2023, 05:11:02 PMI plan on installing a Fueling oil pump in my 2017 M8 RGS. In all the videos I've watched and research I've done they always talk about removing the push rods to do this.  Stupid question.  If I'm not going to change the cam shaft and or removing it from the engine block while changing the oil pump, why do I need to removed the push rods? 

When you pull the cam cover off it will all make sense 😁

hhhmmmmm .........

have you triple checked that you've ordered the correct oil pump ?

From the pics I've seen the cam lobes and lifters are still inside the engine case.  Please correct me if I'm wrong?    So if that is correct and the lifters are still under tension from the push rods, via the lifters, rockers and valve springs, the cam shouldn't move when you take off the oil pump and cam plate.  I've read a few posts where Harley mechanics said they can R&R the oil pump and cam plate without messing with the push rods and of course they don't describe how.  So what am I missing here?  I've do all my own routine maintenance on my Harleys, past and current, and on all my vehicles, etc. and have rebuilt several car engines, but this will be my first time taking a Harley engine apart so I'm having trouble understanding what the issue is unless I'm totally wrong about the cam lobes and lifters still being inside the engine case when the oil pump and cam plate are removed.         
FSG, I haven't ordered any of it yet.  Just doing research at this point.  thanks for the pic.  Looking at the pic I still don't see why I have to remove the push rods.  It seems like I could just reinstall the cam plate and oil pump.  So again I'm obviously missing something here.  Help!

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Look at this video and think about turning the motor over to check out and insure the oil pump is aligned. Now where are the pistons when the motor is being rotated and where are the valves? The same logic hear applies to any four stroke motor. 

Aside from this, as soon as you "pry" the cam plate off because its under valve spring pressure, you have to think how will I lift the cam to get the cam plate back on.

Quote from: Ohio HD on July 08, 2023, 07:06:41 PMPictures are worth a thousand words. Look at this video and think about turning the motor over to check out and insure the oil pump is aligned. Now where are the pistons when the motor is being rotated and where are the valves? The same logic hear applies to any four stroke motor. 

Aside from this, as soon as you "pry" the cam plate off because its under valve spring pressure, you have to think how will I lift the cam to get the cam plate back on.

    was the point I was trying to make but it looks like I missed it 

Quote from: FSG on July 08, 2023, 07:12:39 PM   was the point I was trying to make but it looks like I missed it 

I understood, and saw that too.   

I know guys have done Shovel and Evo motors, meaning take the nose cone off under valve spring pressure. But there's two gears still in there holding the cam up in those cases. In a TC or M8 the rear cam bearing gets all of the valve spring pressure if the cam plate is removed under spring pressure. 

If you have adjustable push rods you will at least have to back them off or the valve spring pressure will force the cam down and you will harm the inner bearing race. if you don't have adjustable push rods you will need to remove the tappet covers to loosen the rockers to release the valve spring pressure . most would cut the std push rods and install adjustable push rods .

Quote from: usraptr on July 08, 2023, 05:11:02 PMI plan on installing a Fueling oil pump in my 2017 M8 RGS. In all the videos I've watched and research I've done they always talk about removing the push rods to do this.  Stupid question.  If I'm not going to change the cam shaft and or removing it from the engine block while changing the oil pump, why do I need to removed the push rods? 

They need to be removed in order to properly facilitate the changing of the cam plate. Perhaps you should read the model specific shop manual for the procedure.  Bob

Quote from: To The Max on July 08, 2023, 07:28:21 PMmost would cut the std push rods and install adjustable push rods .

       me  me  me       

 

Ohio HD.  Thank you for the video.    That makes it clear.    I didn't realize you had to turn the engine over so many times to align the oil pump.     Thank you everybody else for the suggestions about installing adjustable push rods.  I'll check that out.  Again thanks for being patient with my ignorance.