HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: 4DWUDS on February 17, 2023, 07:28:59 PMIf it's a true taper shaft bottom end you will need a 1/4 x 24 tap and die . if you get deep into restoration , you will find all the motor and tranny places that require this tool to clean out and retread holes and screws .

Dang Patrick!  First post in 13 years.  Missed you!  Hope all is well.

That's a good point about the 1/4x24 tap. It's an oddball size so best to order one before you need it. Your local hardware isn't likely to have it.

Another helpful tool is a 7/16" Allen wrench for removing the wheel lugs. It's a lot simpler to remove the wheels by leaving the brake drums on the bike. You need to remove the lugs that hold the brake drum to the starhub to do that.

Hiya Craig , yeah , kinda went into laying low for a spell , lotta cross country tours and then medical issues . Heard you moved into snow country , trying to keep mileage low on that pan ?🤣🤣🤣.

I've lost power to the points. I have power going in one side of the coil but none  coming out of the other side. I'm not really sure it's sposed to have. I can't figure out how this system works. could somebody give me a a  simple lesson on  it? Thanks
STAfford

The power comes from the battery (through the switch) to one side of the coil in a small wire. You test it by touching your meter to that post and to ground and you should read voltage. You can also use a test light from that post to ground.

The other side of the coil, that small wire goes to your points.  When the points are closed the internal coil windings are electrified.  When the points open the electric field in the coil windings collapses and creates the high voltage spark that comes out of the plug wires.

When there is power at the feed side (switch) there will or should be power to the point side.   Put your meter or test light to the coil connection and the other end or probe to ground. It should read power or light the test light if that's what you are using. Also with the switch on, you should be able to short across the points by scratching with a small screwdriver and see a light spark.  If you are getting a spark by opening and closing the points (or scratching them if already open) the circuit is not broken.

If you still don't get a reading from both sides, disconnect them and with your meter on ohms touch each test lead to each post that you just disconnected at the same time.  The needle or readout should show some activity indicating both terminals are internally joined.  If you make it to the last test and there is no ohm reading or activity, that usually indicates a failed circuit in that coil  winding.

Good luck.  It's an easy test

Thanks KD that's very helpful. I have power from the switch to the coil but no  power coming out the other side of the coil. I felt like the  coil is bad so i ordered one and it's supposed to be here by the 24th.
How much does the condenser have to do with all that. I've put plugs, points and condensers in a lot of cars and trucks before electronic ignitions came along but i cant remember ever having a condenser go bad on me.  Thanks KD for taking the time to answer my ignorant question.
Stafford

Quote from: stafford on February 20, 2023, 02:44:48 AMThanks KD that's very helpful. I have power from the switch to the coil but no  power coming out the other side of the coil. I felt like the  coil is bad so i ordered one and it's supposed to be here by the 24th.
How much does the condenser have to do with all that. I've put plugs, points and condensers in a lot of cars and trucks before electronic ignitions came along but i cant remember ever having a condenser go bad on me.  Thanks KD for taking the time to answer my ignorant question.
Stafford

Simply put, is that the condenser is a device used to absorb the excess electrical energy from the primary windings of the coil when the points open.  It is just a roll of foil. It is simply a cushion so to speak. If it wasn't there the points would arc across to each side in such a flash that the power would still flow through the coil and the secondary wouldn't have time to be able to collapse and make the heavy spark needed to cause the spark plug arc. 

The simplistic explanation is if the condenser was to fail it will not prevent the power from reaching either of the coil terminals. There are only 2 things that will occur with a bad condenser.  It shorts and  goes directly to ground and doesn't protect the points, or it has an open fault not letting the electrical energy in, which will cause it to not protect the points.  Either fail can burn or pit the points with metal transfer much like a miniature stick welder. It will result in a no start / no run condition. Testing the power at the coil and the points will still show electricity is making it to those points (no pun intended).

A failed condenser will occasionally allow a motor to start, but it will misfire excessively and in a random pattern.

Quote from: Hossamania on February 20, 2023, 12:19:37 PMA failed condenser will occasionally allow a motor to start, but it will misfire excessively and in a random pattern.

That's very true.  In fact a failed condenser does often show up as poor running shortly before it fails. On that case you may even notice what looks like burned points when it finally dies. 

More often IMO the condenser will fail (or start to fail) as a result of cooling after being shut off hot.  They are really no more that a roll of foil with a paper barrier between the layers. They expand and contract with engine heat.  I have experienced new condensers fail often enough that I reverted to not changing them with the points unless I saw an indication of excessive metal transfer and pitting on the point contacts.  Kinda like if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's hard to beat experience and you fellas seem to have a lot of it! I sure do thank you for sharing it with me and anyone else that may need it. I should get the new coil by the 24th and I have a lot of confidence that it will fix the no  spark trouble. I've had several days with nice temperatures that i could have taken the old girl out for a ride or two and try to get to know that rocker clutch a little better. For me it's kinda tricky. Thanks guys, Stafford

My new coil got here yesterday and I put it on and the bike started right up. Sure am happy about that. The ol thing runs great. Thanks to you fellas for offering up your advice. Like i said it's hard to beat experience. Now we're looking at a cooler temperatures and rain in the forecast. It'll get nice and I'll get to ride it later. I'm fairly impatient,  don't like to wait for anything. I  don't reckon I'm the only one like that. I'll get my chances to figure out how to deal with the rocker clutch. Thanks fellas,
Stafford

Quote from: stafford on February 23, 2023, 04:54:05 PMMy new coil got here yesterday and I put it on and the bike started right up. Sure am happy about that. The ol thing runs great. Thanks to you fellas for offering up your advice. Like i said it's hard to beat experience. Now we're looking at a cooler temperatures and rain in the forecast. It'll get nice and I'll get to ride it later. I'm fairly impatient,  don't like to wait for anything. I  don't reckon I'm the only one like that. I'll get my chances to figure out how to deal with the rocker clutch. Thanks fellas,
Stafford

Take some credit for yourself stafford. You tested it, found something unusual and recognized that, explained it well, understood it from the discussion, ordered a coil and fixed it.    . 

Thanks KD around here theres an old saying, even a  blind hog'll find an acorn every onece in a while. Ya'll have a good evening.
Stafford

I've had bad condensers right out of the box.

We had an older mechanic when I was a younger fellow running the auto parts / service business. He'd look at the points under a magnifying glass, if they weren't burnt in any way he'd reuse the old condenser. It may have been the right mechanics solution, but the owner would get mad because he sent a car out with the old part.

Quote from: Deye76 on February 28, 2023, 04:14:40 PMI've had bad condensers right out of the box.

Same.

Quote from: Ohio HD on February 28, 2023, 04:21:56 PMWe had an older mechanic when I was a younger fellow running the auto parts / service business. He'd look at the points under a magnifying glass, if they weren't burnt in any way he'd reuse the old condenser. It may have been the right mechanics solution, but the owner would get mad because he sent a car out with the old part.

That's what I was mentioning in my previous post.  If the condenser is failing you will usually see one side pitted and the other with buildup.  It's like welding metal transfer.  If the points were cherry I left well enough alone.  Believe it or not I still have a few new condensers in one of my tool box drawers (in case I need them    )


Like I said, the condenser is a little storage cell. Here's a good prank way    to test a condenser.  Ground the case on the block and use plug wire to the center wire or strap. As long as you only touch either the case or wire only, you can handle it. If you become the link between the two, you'll wish you hadn't.  Now here's the way you test the condenser.  Charge it up and toss it to a not so good friend.  When they catch it you can usually gauge by the language he uses if it can be reused.    

 

Yeah in high school shop class we'd charge them and just toss them to someone. They'd catch it and OH S**T!

Looks like my post keeept getting deleted for some reason.

Just a bit of information, on my FLE, it came stock with a 61" cam and the linkert stock carburetor was also for a 61" motor (M61B), not a 74B like most other 74" models use.  This can be updated to make it perform better.  changing these to a cam /carb more suited for a 74" motor really helped while still maintaining the stock look.

Also, these tapered shaft motors mostly came with solid motor sprockets that like to eat primary chains.  I used to need to change my chain evert 5K miles until I went with a spring compensator sprocket.  They fit a tapered shaft, and have a thin hex head nut (not the round four hole nut used on splines shaft motors). 
These are hard to find as these were a dealer option only back then.
 Dave R

okay here we go another dumb question. I thought there was trash in the tank and had the carb plugged up but there wasn't anything in there. I'm thinking the float was sticking in the bowl and thats why it would randomly stop running temporarily. Here's my question. The kit I order came with a needle valve that was steel. the one that was in it originally had a rubber tip on it. I'm just wondering which needle valve I should use. rubber tipped or steel tipped. I'm leaning towards the rubber valve. I'm hoping my shoulder will settle down enough so i can stand there and put the carb back together. Thanks for any help fellas.
Stafford