Cracked!

[JW113]

I guess I was on Santa's naughty list.


It started off as little project to send the flywheels to Darkhorse so they could balance them for me. This '92 Softail is one of the more viby evos that I've been on so what the heck, fix it, right? After getting it down to the crankcase, I found my lump of coal:

[attach=0]

So now I guess I have some decisions to make. Fix it cheap with some stock replacement Ultima cases? Spend more for S&S? Bump it up to 96 cubes? Whole new crate motor? We don't get snow around here, but clearly the snowball is a-rollin' down hill. Not how I wanted to start the new year that's for sure!

-JW

[Deye76]

Ouch. New cases, and a Darkhorse bottom you know it's right. Might consider leaving it stock stroke, have the heads ported.

[wfolarry]

The Ultima cases are nice.

[Pete_Vit]

ouch is right  sorry JW 

[rigidthumper]

They say bad luck is always followed by good. Maybe it's time to buy a powerball ticket?
+1 on the Ultima cases. Ask Phil about pricing?

[JW113]

So I have given it some thought. If I weight what is the most important virtue I want from this bike, it's smoothness at cruising speed. I don't need it to be a hot rod, already have two of those. Therefore, will just replace the cases with a set of Ultimas and be done with it.

I think I figured out the story of why this happened. Set aside the part that this year of HD cases were known for this very thing, when I pulled the top end off last winter to fix leaky base gaskets, they were not cracked. When I put it back together I used Cometic head gaskets and followed their tightening recommendation of 42 ft-lbs. Then on top of that, I rode the thing up to Sacramento on a hotter than hell day, and pulled a cylinder stud. Being the fool, I didn't inspect the cases for cracks then, but I'm guessing the high torqued head bolts and hot engine cracked the cases in that weak area. This explains why I've had a bit of a oil weep around the tappet blocks for a while now.

It's all good, all fixable, and will simply pull me pants up like a big boy and deal with it.

-JW

[tmwmoose]

The Ultima cases are nice.

[turboprop]

There is another option, source another right side case half. I know. I too would get a new set of aftermarket cases, but would also get another right side case while the getting is good and keep that matching numbers case in the box that the aftermarket cases came in. Never know. I know the guys with pan heads in the 50's and 60's never thought those old bikes would be worth anything with matching numbers.

[Breeze]

I admire your trouble shooting process.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

92-94 +/-, were prone to that.
Never a fun find.

[JW113]

Yes, another right side case would be nice to have just for grins. I don't know how well they "drop in", or if some align honing & spiggot facing would need to be done.

Another option would be to get the stock case welded. We have a guy here local that's as good as they come with a TIG.

-JW

[wfolarry]

You can't weld that crack. You would have to break it off & build up a new one tig welding it. Then Machine it

[JW113]

Yes you're probably right.

Question on the Ultima cases though. This bike is a 1992 case breather. Ultima has two options, 84-91 and 92+. They don't give any details about what the difference is, but I'm going to guess case breather or head breather. S&S has only one type 84-99 and can be configured either way.

-JW

[turboprop]

Yes you're probably right.

Question on the Ultima cases though. This bike is a 1992 case breather. Ultima has two options, 84-91 and 92+. They don't give any details about what the difference is, but I'm going to guess case breather or head breather. S&S has only one type 84-99 and can be configured either way.

-JW

Look at the oil pump bolt patterns.

[72fl]

JW i'm guessin' the first word out of your mouth wasn't Shucks. Man that is a tough call, how many miles was on it ? Will that sway your decision possibly ? Good Luck JW, just remember it happened in 2018 and I'm telling you it can't get out of here fast enough.

[JW113]

Bingo Turbo. Exactly the case with the oil pump mounting. Thanks!

72FL, yes a little stronger language than shucks, but compared to my typical vernacular, the exclamation was borderline "polite".


This mill has about 37K stock miles on it. Like I posted earlier, I think this was possibly self inflicted or at least helped along by too much head nut torque and heat. To me this could not have happened at a better time. It's "winter", was tearing down the motor in my garage anyway, and with a few more bucks thown at it will be a much more dependable machine. Sure am happy this was not out in the middle of Death Valley!

-JW

[JW113]

Well DAMN. All back together, new Ultima cases, and Darkhorse blueprinted/balanced flywheels. Did all the final touches and preped to start it. Last thing before live ignition was to spin it over and get the oil pressure up. Which, unfortunately IT DIDN'T.

Have checked and double checked all the obvious stuff. Lines routed correctly, oil flowing out of feed line, removed plunger and tappet screen plugs, oil rising out of those. I was suspicuous of the oil pressure sender, a new one that came with the cases. Removed it, spun the motor, got a quick "plop" of oil out hole then nothing. So it's not getting oil to that passage. Actually I need to go read TFM, can't remember if that passage gets no pressure until the plunger lifts up.

I have not pulled the check valve plug yet, as it involves removing the case vent fitting but will do that tomorrow.

The one thing that I'm not 100% clear on, will a stock HD oil pump work with an Ultima crankcase? The bike is '92, and the cases I ordered were for 92-99. So it should be OK, right?

Anything I missed or should try again?

-JW

[turboprop]

Are all of the plugs back in when the engine is spinning and you are looking for oil at the port for the sender?

The design of the shovel/evo oil pump will sometimes allow a sort of 'bubble lock' like what you describe. I used to have a fixture that allowed oil to be pumped through the oil pump into the lifters and pinion shaft. Was one of the last checks I did before dropping the cylinders on. Also had a fixture that allowed oil to be pumped backwards into the oil pump. Doing this from the input and output sides was like 'bench bleeding'. You could probably rig something up with a small pressurized tank of oil. I would simply hook a good gauge up to that pressure port and fire that engine with my hand on the kill button. and eyes on the gauge.

[david lee]

id never weld a case even by an expert

[Mule]

Go to the vintage harley and Indian races sometime, go to the pits and check out the cases on those old racers, a lot of them have been welded back together...

[JW113]

Are all of the plugs back in when the engine is spinning and you are looking for oil at the port for the sender?

Yes.

"hook a good gauge up to that pressure port and fire that engine with my hand on the kill button. and eyes on the gauge."

Exactly my plan after pulling the check ball plug. Hopefully some good news this moring. Else pull the oil pump and make sure all the keys are in the gears.


-JW

[Hybredhog]

    On a fresh build or oil pump R&R, I take out the allen pipe plug on the outer pump cover, it where they use to mount the pressure switch. Its path is after the feed gears & before the check ball & if you dump a quart of oil in  the tank it'll eventually seep out that hole while your doing other stuff, then you know the pump is primed. On EVO Dyna's you can use a vacuum pump to create suction to that same hole.

[JW113]

I've pretty much exhausted everything I can think of, including taking the pump cover off and seeing that the gears turn when the starter is cranked. There is oil oozing out from every plug, so clearly oil is getting to the pump. I fired it up breifly, no pressure on the gauge and tappets clacking away. About the only thing that I can figure is the oil is getting bypassed somehow. Guess it's time to contact Ultima and find out if there is something I should know about their replacement crankcases.

-JW

[Scotty]

You do know that the bottom breather part of the Ultima case is blocked off and they recommend to go to a top breather.
The rocker covers changed and you need 93 up rocker covers to be a top breather.
Can the Ultima cases be modified? Don't know.
With S&S cases you can use either but not with Ultima unless you buy the 84-91 cases and use an earlier oil pump.
92 was a prick of a year with the new wider oil pump but still a bottom breather for 90% of the production year.

From the S&S website
The head breather system requires 1993 and newer rocker boxes and heads.
Something else to keep in mind all S&S EVO style crankcases are capable of breathing out the lower end (when the 92 and earlier cam cover is used) which gives you more breathing options. You can breath out the top, bottom, or both.

From Ultima
note (1)Ultima® engines are supplied with 92/L breathers operating but the early 84/91 system is present but plugged.**
All Ultima® engines are designed to use 1993 & later style PCV systems (Rocker Boxes). Proper installation and free operation of the Cylinder Head Vent lines are very important to your engine's oiling system and overall performance. We recommend using only this late style breather system and not opening the lower case breathers, which come plugged from the factory.

[Burnout]

Pictures of the pump and lines?