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Starting / cranking issues.

Started by FRANKIE THE FINGER, December 31, 2018, 06:26:02 PM

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FRANKIE THE FINGER

86 FXR.  New battery fully charge,  hit the starter button and it has a hard time turning over the engine. It does have 10.5 compression.  Started relay has been replaced, starter solenoid has also. Anyone experience this and know a fix? 
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing.

guppymech

When the starter stalls out let off the button so the crank rolls back then hit the button again, always worked good with my stock compression EVO.
'84 FXE, '02 883R

Deye76

East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

FRANKIE THE FINGER

Unfortunately no compression releases.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing.

koko3052

Is this a new build or just a problem that popped up?
Firstly I would make sure of all very good connections. I always sand under each connection & use star washers to make positive that everything is connecting. After tightening down I either spray paint the connection or smear dielectric grease on it. I run a ground wire directly from battery to starter  also of a heavy gauge.
Other than that, rock the engine as guppymech suggested & think about comp. releases.

turboprop

Quote from: FRANKIE THE FINGER on December 31, 2018, 06:26:02 PM
86 FXR.  New battery fully charge,  hit the starter button and it has a hard time turning over the engine. It does have 10.5 compression.  Started relay has been replaced, starter solenoid has also. Anyone experience this and know a fix?

That spec of 10.5 compression doesn't mean anything without a cam spec, and even then someone has to do the math to convert it into cranking pressure.

Look at the timing, particularly initial timing.

'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

speedzter

Measure the voltage at the battery when cranking.
Also try cranking with the coil disconnected to see if any difference.

Burnout

What kind of battery?

What size battery cables?

What ignition system?

Does temp make a difference?

Hitachi starters aren't the most powerful but pretty reliable.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

tomfiii

Even stock acted like this, either quick release button and hit again or thro in higher gear and pull back on bike to back-up motor.

Hossamania

You could try installing a direct button on the end of the starter, that would eliminate the wiring through the button and relay. It might give you a better idea if that is the problem, or if the starter itself is dragging.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Heatseeker

I am experiencing the same issue.

85 FXR with Edelbrock top end kit(10.5:1 pistons), S&S carb and Redshift 559 cam(installed about 3 years ago). I've had the bike for about 15 years and have had only minor starting issues until about a year and a half ago, when I started having cranking issues. Installed a fresh battery. That helped for a few trips, then the stock starter just couldn't make it past the first compression. Replaced both starter relay and solenoid, still no go. I broke down and popped for an All Balls starter. Still no go. Bought a new hot whammy lithium ion battery, still no good. I am now swapping out the battery cables to 4 guage and taking the relay out of the high current path(going to use it for the start circuit only). The old cables were not in the best of shape, so hopefully the new cables will correct the problem. Comp releases don't really seem to be an option on the Edelbrock heads without some serious modifications. Any other suggestions?

I don't ride the bike often since it is a second bike, but it would be nice if it would fire up when I wanted it to!
If it ain't broke, keep fixin' it 'til it is...

turboprop

Quote from: Heatseeker on January 06, 2019, 08:43:41 AM
I am experiencing the same issue.

85 FXR with Edelbrock top end kit(10.5:1 pistons), S&S carb and Redshift 559 cam(installed about 3 years ago). I've had the bike for about 15 years and have had only minor starting issues until about a year and a half ago, when I started having cranking issues. Installed a fresh battery. That helped for a few trips, then the stock starter just couldn't make it past the first compression. Replaced both starter relay and solenoid, still no go. I broke down and popped for an All Balls starter. Still no go. Bought a new hot whammy lithium ion battery, still no good. I am now swapping out the battery cables to 4 guage and taking the relay out of the high current path(going to use it for the start circuit only). The old cables were not in the best of shape, so hopefully the new cables will correct the problem. Comp releases don't really seem to be an option on the Edelbrock heads without some serious modifications. Any other suggestions?

I don't ride the bike often since it is a second bike, but it would be nice if it would fire up when I wanted it to!

Coutless heads from Edelbrock have had compression releases installed in them. Its the same process and tooling used on any other evo or TC head. Not major at all.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

hbkeith

my 83 FXR did that when I bought it , All Balls starter and double welding cable grounds and it spun like the plugs were out

Burnout

Ignition systems that don't have a starter saver in them often will buck the starter on the first cylinder that comes up.
Some ignitions run in race mode (no VOES) do not retard the spark enough at cranking speed and will buck the starter.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Hossamania

Quote from: Burnout on January 06, 2019, 08:21:25 PM
Ignition systems that don't have a starter saver in them often will buck the starter on the first cylinder that comes up.
Some ignitions run in race mode (no VOES) do not retard the spark enough at cranking speed and will buck the starter.

But, what is causing these to work fine for years, and then start having problems when nothing has been changed? What has failed to cause the starting problems? It was not caused by a new race ignition or the elimination of the voes.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Burnout

A voltage drop test across the battery cables should provide a clue.
With a fully charged and load tested battery?

If that is all good that leaves the starter motor and the motor itself.

My 87 has always bucked the starter on hot starts, but it has never not started.
Factory Police ignition module does not have a starter saver.
It's never crunched more than once, and occasionally delivers a proper exhaust report to keep the citizens on their toes!
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Heatseeker

Quote from: turboprop on January 06, 2019, 02:04:01 PM

Coutless heads from Edelbrock have had compression releases installed in them. Its the same process and tooling used on any other evo or TC head. Not major at all.

Can you point me to a source for exact placement? My google fu has failed me in my past searches.
If it ain't broke, keep fixin' it 'til it is...

Heatseeker

Quote from: hbkeith on January 06, 2019, 03:14:25 PM
my 83 FXR did that when I bought it , All Balls starter and double welding cable grounds and it spun like the plugs were out

I am installing 2 gauge welding cable over the next few days. Keeping my fingers crossed for some free spinning cranking!
If it ain't broke, keep fixin' it 'til it is...

TexNorth

I have a 92 FLHTCU that won't crank when it's cold, but will when it's hot.  Probably a Oil drag issue along with a poor connection somewhere.   I tried to track it down but went ahead and put a button on the starter.   Just have to lean over and push it in.   Fires right up.  Maybe one day I'll track the issue down, but I think it may take days to tracking wires to figure out which one is weak.   

Rather ride than wrench all the time, already have too many hours getting this thing running...... :SM:

Hossamania

The connections at the ignition switch often get corroded, especially on the dash mounted switches, but all the power runs through those things, so that is a point of failure. And, of course, the handlebar switch itself.
The push button on the end of the starter removes all those from the equation, and will narrow the problem down to the basics, battery cables, battery, starter, drive.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

fbn ent

Well, good conversation. The ignition switch is a bad actor as far as voltage drop goes. Check that out. I replaced the power wire to from the ignition switch to the relay after building a solenoid test set up. Fixed up the old '84....Like many have already said, check all of the grounds.
'02 FLTRI - 103" / '84 FLH - 88"<br />Hinton, Alberta

david lee


fbn ent

January 07, 2019, 02:04:10 PM #22 Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 05:36:50 PM by fbn ent
Like I said, fixed the issue. The OEM wire had too much resistance and was dropping volts.
'02 FLTRI - 103" / '84 FLH - 88"<br />Hinton, Alberta

Deye76

East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

turboprop

Quote from: FRANKIE THE FINGER on December 31, 2018, 06:26:02 PM
86 FXR.  New battery fully charge,  hit the starter button and it has a hard time turning over the engine. It does have 10.5 compression.  Started relay has been replaced, starter solenoid has also. Anyone experience this and know a fix?

Way too much peripheral noise in this thread. Have you identified or solved the problem?
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.