Starter problem?

[Leed]

Hi all,

Any and all suggestions are more than welcome.

First off this is on an 09 EG Ultra.  I installed a tank lift kit from DK and when I went to start the bike it wouldn't turn over.  I really don't think the lift has anything to do with the problem but then again??
The fuel pump works and when I hit the button I can hear a loud clack and feel it on the starter but that's it.  It makes no attempt to turn over.  So far I've switched the relay, measured the voltage on the battery when I hit the starter (went from 12.3V to 11.8V) and tried jumping the bike.  I even put it in gear and pushed it to feel the motor turn over to make sure nothing was bound up.  Now I'm wondering what to try next.

So thanks in advance for your help.

Lee   

[Ohio HD]

Carefully take a battery lead to the starter terminal, making sure not to ground it out. See if the starter will crank when eliminating the rest of the bike.

[chaos901]

Obviously make certain the bike is in Neutral when you do the above.  I've seen that not be done before.   

[smoserx1]

Sounds painfully familiar.  I lived with it for years and just looked at the 2009  wiring diagram.  This circuit is the same as 1999 which is the year of my bike.  In essence the solenoid is likely not receiving enough power to pull it in firmly and  ram the copper ring against the contacts that connect the starter motor to the battery.   You could clean up the solenoid contacts and lightly lubricate the plunger or install button end cover.  That will work for a while.  Or you can fix it permanently like I did.

The starter relay has 5 terminals labeled 30, 87, 87a, 85 and 86.  85 and 86 are connected to the low power wires which trigger the relay.  30 is the terminal receiving power from the ignition switch accessory circuit and 87 is the normally open terminal sending power out to the solenoid.  IOW, when the relay is triggered by the handlebar button, 30 and 87 join together and become a single electrical path.  Here is how I fixed this problem for good:

I removed the red/gray wire from terminal 30 and insulated the end with shrink wrap and tucked it away.  Then I added a new circuit complete with a fuse so terminal 30 of the relay received 12V+ directly from the battery.  Any auto parts store should have a fuse holder with enough lead to go from the battery + terminal to terminal 30 of the relay.  To do it right you will need a terminal P-N 72429-00 (dealer might have to order it), and you will need an open barrel (Weatherpak) crimping tool.  Or you could just cut the red/gray wire leading into to terminal 30 and butt splice/solder  your new circuit in, but I don't like doing things that way.  A couple of folks on this forum have scoffed at me for recommending this solution saying I shouldn't modify the wiring in this manner, but I have not had the problem one time since I made the modification.  I have also had to do this to a car I once owned (that is where I got the idea).  Anytime you can wire something that uses a fair bit of power directly to the battery you are ahead of the game.  Check out the wiring diagram here on this site.  Good luck!!

[fbn ent]

I did this on my '84 FLH. Solved voltage drop through the switch permanently.

[Leed]

Carefully take a battery lead to the starter terminal, making sure not to ground it out. See if the starter will crank when eliminating the rest of the bike.

Well I tried that and it's dead.  Didn't even draw down the battery when I touched the starter terminal.  So does that mean the starter is toast? I really appreciate your help with this. 

[Leed]

Obviously make certain the bike is in Neutral when you do the above.  I've seen that not be done before.   

Thanks for the tip. I'll bet it got ugly really fast if the bike was in gear.

[smoserx1]

Did you touch the right terminal?  Pull off the green wire to the solenoid then go from the battery + lead to the terminal where the green wire was connected.

[Ohio HD]

You have to also put power to the solenoid terminal. All wires from the bike off the starter to isolate it.

[Jim Bronson]

Are you still hearing the loud clack from the solenoid? If so, the first thing I'd do is clean the solenoid contacts or better yet, install a rebuild kit. It takes about a half hour, and you'll eliminate one possible problem. If the starter still doesn't spin, it's probably bad.

[Leed]

Ok thanks.  I'll give it another try when I get home.  I pulled back the rubber cover on top of the starter and connected it to there. 

[smoserx1]

That is what I thought when I read your reply.  That cable is already connected to your battery and goes into the solenoid.  Just FYI if you look closely at your starter there should be another short cable that exits the solenoid and goes into the starter motor (on the bottom on mine).  Your solenoid acts as a high current relay and connects these two cables together forming a direct path from the battery + terminal to the starter motor.  The other function of the solenoid it to force an output shaft to move engaging a pinion gear into the ring gear on the clutch basket.  Anyway, try activating just the solenoid from the battery and see what happens.  If it activates nicely doing this test but fails using the handlebar button I suggest the wiring modification I described earlier.  I wrestled with this problem for years with my 99 FLHT before finally doing the modification.  Also you might want to check the voltage of the green wire to the solenoid when you press the handlebar button.  IIRC when I was having these problems the voltage was below 11 volts, and this is a function of aging wiring and gradually oxidizing connections.

[Leed]

Still looking like the starter.  I disconnected the plug at the solenoid and connected the battery + to the connection under the starter.  Sparks when touching the connector but nothing else.  The solenoid seems to be working from the clack I hear from both the handlebar switch and when I touched the connector on the solenoid with the cable from the battery.  Just nothing from the starter motor itself.

I really appreciated all of your help in trying to figure out what's going on.  If it is the starter then having it fail in my garage is a lot better than on the road somewhere.

[smoserx1]

Sorry to hear that.  There is one more test you can do before throwing in the towel on the starter.  Lots of folks replace the end cover of the solenoid with one containing a push button so you can operate the solenoid manually (some custom bikes don't have a handlebar button and this is the only way).  If you remove the existing cover (3 screws) you will be looking at the end of the solenoid plunger.  You can push it in.  I recommend using a wooden dowel (like a broom handle) to do this.  Again make sure the bike is not in gear.  If this test fails you are probably looking at replacing or rebuilding the starter.  Good luck.

[Leed]

I just want to thank everyone again for all of the tips and suggestions. 
I tried pushing the solenoid in and all I got was the same loud clack I would get from the handlebar switch.
Looks like it's starter shopping time.

[fbn ent]

FWIW, I haven't heard anything bad about the Ultima ones. Pretty cost effective.

I bought one OEM for my '02 off e-bay and it was real good also.

Starters don't take a hit in a wreck usually I wouldn't think.

[Leed]

Well I called Phil yesterday and placed my order.  I'll second all of the great things that have been said about Phil!  Really a nice guy with great prices.

I'll update this post once I get the new starter in and again thanks everyone for all of your help! 

[Dan89flstc]

Charge the battery and have it load tested.

Clean all connections.

If it still makes the loud clack but no start, rebuild the solenoid.

All of the above will cost about 15 bucks...

[Leed]

I put the new starter in last night and my bike fired up like never before. 
Again thanks to everyone who helped me out and California Phil for a great price on a new, more powerful starter!

[fbn ent]

 

[jmorton10]

What brand starter did you buy??

~John

[Leed]

I got the Drag Specialties starter.  Call California Phil.  He has a great price on the starter.

https://www.denniskirk.com/drag-specialties/starter-motor-1-4-kilowatt-2110-0247.p209117.prd/209117.sku