Excessive front brake lever travel; pistons stuck in bores

[Ratfade]

The bike is an '03 Electra Glide. Awhile back I noticed what I thought was excessive brake lever travel. I bled the brakes and put in new fluid. No change.
I'd heard that maybe the pistons could be stuck in the bores, so I removed the calipers and pads. Pulling the lever produced almost no movement in the pistons. I pumped the lever, and got a little movement, and one piston even fell out (with brake fluid flowing:-)).
So, I'd like to remove the pistons and clean them up, but I don't have the tool referenced in the service manual. I read hear that some something like robo grips with a soft cover could be used, but I'd like to hear that confirmed.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Ironpig9]

OK, what you're looking at is a rebuild of the calipers. You can buy kits which have new pistons, 0-rings, and in some lubricant. Drain your brake fluid, take the calipers off and apart. you can force the pistons out with air but be careful. They can shoot out with some force (force them into a towel).  Once out it's cleaning time for the bores. Use some brake cleaner and clean the heck out of them. Throw old O-rings, old pistons away. Put a coating of brake fluid on O-rings, on bores and pistons. You'll prob have to force the pistons back into their bores. Use a small block of wood and smush them in. While the caliper is apart clean and/or replace the anti-rattle clip. You might as well replace the brake pads too -they are cheap. Once completed the calipers are put back together and mounted to bike, do the brake fluid thing. When finished (several hours later) you'll have about 1/4 inch of travel in the lever and much, much better front brakes. Keep your brake fluid changed every couple of years and you won't have to repeat the process. Your local indy should be able to order a rebuild kit for you. Good luck and have patience. And if you have a shop manual it should tell you how to rebuild the calipers.

[Ratfade]

Thanks, Iron.
I found a caliper re-build kit at JP Cycles for $40. Sounds reasonable. I'll order two. I'm going with pads I have as they're almost new.
I don't have access to an air compressor. Any other tips on getting the pistons out? Obviously, the one that fell out which I reinstalled will be easy. Since I'm not reusing the pistons, I guess I don't care if I destroy them as long as I don't destroy anything else in the process.

[DresserDan]

Thus was a common problem on those years. There are several things to do to clean them up with out going the rebuild kit. Google and check on here for more info and ways to fix this. I had the same problem Pistons sticking on a 03. I used some of the ideas that were posted on here and got them back up in shape.

[Boe Cole]

Ironpig nailed it.  To get the second piston out using only the brake lever, you can put the piston that came out back in and control the travel of both pistons so they come out evenly.  Access to an air compressor would save you a lot of grief and aggravation - not only now for working on brakes but in general.  If coin is an issue, go to harbor freight and see if they have anything that fits your budget.  As Ironpig noted, use rags or a block of wood to control the pistons as they come out of the bores - they can really cause some issues of not controlled.

Another alternative might be to use a set of pliers that open when squeezed.  I know they have a name but i don't know what it is.

Good luck.

[rigidthumper]

https://www.otctools.com/products/brake-piston-removal-locking-pliers

[Ratfade]

Lots of great information here. I used to have an air compressor which I rarely used. When it broke, I gave away all my air tools on the theory that I probably wouldn't use them again. Isn't that always the way.
I can get a 100 psi pancake compressor from Harbor Freight for well under a hundred dollars, or I can get the OTC pliers from Amazon for under $40. I'm inclined to go with the pliers if only because they won't take up much space in my garage. I'm not sure 100 psi would do the job. Also, Harbor Freight is located in a part of town which I like to avoid whenever possible.
Like most jobs, this one sure turned into something I wasn't expecting when it began.

[PoorUB]

I am surprised that anyone that does any service and repairs  doesn't have at the very least a small portable  compressor.  Heck, I have three compressors! A 5 HP 2 stage 80 gallon. A 3/4 HP 7 gallon and a tiny little hod dog for using my finish nailer in the house.

[Boe Cole]

Lots of great information here. I used to have an air compressor which I rarely used. When it broke, I gave away all my air tools on the theory that I probably wouldn't use them again. Isn't that always the way.
I can get a 100 psi pancake compressor from Harbor Freight for well under a hundred dollars, or I can get the OTC pliers from Amazon for under $40. I'm inclined to go with the pliers if only because they won't take up much space in my garage. I'm not sure 100 psi would do the job. Also, Harbor Freight is located in a part of town which I like to avoid whenever possible.
Like most jobs, this one sure turned into something I wasn't expecting when it began.

100 psi is more than sufficient to blow out the pistons.  I believe that much pressure could send them across the room and impale them in a wall!!!

If you ride, the pancake compressor would be good for keeping tire pressure up as well.  Cheap investment - go for it....

[smoserx1]

You should be able to get those pistons out with a hand or foot operated pump.  Might need a third hand but they shouldn't be all that tight.

[Ratfade]

The pliers arrived today (thanks Amazon and Rigidthumper). They're a pretty clever tool, kind of like reverse vise grips. Even with this tool, the pistons were difficult to remove, really frozen in place. WD and extra effort made it work.
The new pistons and o-rings should be here in a couple of days.

[rigidthumper]

 

[86fxwg]

DONT use brake fluid to lube o-rings & pistons,use the grease the kits come with.
Stated in the manual. Use of brake fluid for piston & o-ring lubrication will cause an increase in lever travel!
Lube part # if kit doesnt come with piston oring lube G322L silicone grease!


86

[Ratfade]

Thanks; I'd read that in the manual and it was my plan to go with the silicone grease.

[klammer76]

Thanks; I'd read that in the manual and it was my plan to go with the silicone grease.

Hard to find the Johnson stuff the manual references. I used sil-glide from NAPA. Works like a charm.

[Ratfade]

Ordered.

[IronButt70]

Check Lowes or Home Depot. They often have the pancake compressors on sale. My 20 year old Porter- Cable stills works like a charm and it's had heavy use at times over the years.

[Hossamania]

https://rubikki.com/product/porter-cable-c2002-oil-free-umc-pancake-compressor/

[Boe Cole]

https://rubikki.com/product/porter-cable-c2002-oil-free-umc-pancake-compressor/

At home I have a large compressor that i use for various projects around the house and is not what i call portable.  My neighbor has the pancake and I borrow it when i have to go south to work on my son's home.  It handles my air tools for most work around the home (staplers, nailers, etc.) but can't handle any serious painting activities without pausing to give it a chance to get its breath - so to speak.  They are great for most homeowner uses and cost effective.

[Ratfade]

https://rubikki.com/product/porter-cable-c2002-oil-free-umc-pancake-compressor/

Okay, okay. I'll get the compressor. I'm going to re-install the pistons and use the compressor to get them out again .
Seriously, when my old large compressor broke, I'd used it so infrequently that I gave away what air tools I had. Isn't that always the way.
I've done a lot of projects, including installing stators, without one that I just figured I wouldn't need to replace it. And I'm such a lousy painter, not having a compressor is a blessing.
But having a compressor as a fast way to inflate tires does sound nice.

At home I have a large compressor that i use for various projects around the house and is not what i call portable.  My neighbor has the pancake and I borrow it when i have to go south to work on my son's home.  It handles my air tools for most work around the home (staplers, nailers, etc.) but can't handle any serious painting activities without pausing to give it a chance to get its breath - so to speak.  They are great for most homeowner uses and cost effective.

[Hossamania]

I don't use my compressor much for tools, it means I'm working too hard. But I do use it often on the tires, lifting the Handy Lift MC table, blowing up inflatables for the grandkids. For not using it much, it seems to get fired up at least once a week. Much like my cordless drill, always being pressed into service, I just leave it out, never put away.

[TXChop]

Watch for corrosion in the seal surfaces. Have seen a few that were not rebuild-able.

[Dan89flstc]

I have a set of Wilwood GP-310 calipers that had seized pistons, compressed air wouldn`t budge them.

Connected a grease gun to the caliper, pumped it full of grease and that grease gun pushed the pistons out with ease.

BrakeKleen got them nice and clean afterward.

[14Frisco]

I have a set of Wilwood GP-310 calipers that had seized pistons, compressed air wouldn`t budge them.

Can you tell more about the circumstances the Wilwood GP-310 seized...
I have one of those on one of my bikes, using DOT-5 fluid, bike is ridden regularly and haven't noticed any issue (yet).  I don't think I have disassembled it since I originally put it on though.

[Dan89flstc]

Can you tell more about the circumstances the Wilwood GP-310 seized...

I`m not sure what caused the issue, but I changed over to DOT4 fluid, and I think when I flushed the system I didn`t get it all out.

There was no physical damage or wear on the bores, once cleaned they looked like new, so I think the seals swelled up big time.

When I rebuilt the caliper I also replaced the master cylinder (I was upgrading to later model controls, switches etc), and also installed a new brake line. It works fine now, finally after 30 years the old Softail actually feels like it has brakes...

I just installed another Wilwood GP-310 on the rear.

I found the folks at Wilwood to be very responsive to tech questions by phone.

[Dan89flstc]

Can you tell more about the circumstances the Wilwood GP-310 seized...

I`m not sure what caused the issue, but I changed over to DOT4 fluid, and I think when I flushed the system I didn`t get it all out (I have since gone back to DOT5 for this old bike).

There was no physical damage or wear on the bores, once cleaned they looked like new, so I think the seals swelled up big time.

When I rebuilt the caliper I also replaced the master cylinder (I was upgrading to later model controls, switches etc), and also installed a new brake line. It works fine now, finally after 30 years the old Softail actually feels like it has brakes...

I just installed another Wilwood GP-310 on the rear.

I found the folks at Wilwood to be very responsive to tech questions by phone.

[14Frisco]

Thanks Dan.
When I replaced the OEM caliper w/ the GP-310 I decided to stick w/ DOT 5 since it had worked fine over the years and is not/less harmful to paint.  I also stuck with the OEM 5/8" master cylinder although a smaller-bore would be better to get a less-woody brake lever feeling.

Sorry for the thread hijack...

[Ratfade]

Returning briefly to the topic, everything is back together and working great. Super advice from everyone here.

[Hossamania]

Glad you got it, I'll bet it's nice to have good lever feel back.

[Ratfade]

It's great to have it working well. When I got it back together, I did notice that the brake light stayed on. So I went with my usual fix which is to build a little extension for the lever tab that keeps the "off" switch depressed. I use epoxy and a tiny piece of 3/8 in. OD tubing to extend the tab.

[Dan89flstc]

Glad you got it, I'll bet it's nice to have good lever feel back.

What did you do to correct the problem?

[Hossamania]

Glad you got it, I'll bet it's nice to have good lever feel back.

What did you do to correct the problem?

He rebuilt the calipers.