The talk is if the trans is low on oil it will not damage it, how low does it have to be to damage it. is 10oz. low enough.
First we would have to define damage. On the other hand the engineers that designed the trans and the motor company that built it have already defined how much oil it should run and they marked it on the dip stick and put the instructions in writing. Why would anyone now want to argue with them.
Quote from: 1FSTRK on September 18, 2018, 05:55:42 PM
First we would have to define damage. On the other hand the engineers that designed the trans and the motor company that built it have already defined how much oil it should run and they marked it on the dip stick and put the instructions in writing. Why would anyone now want to argue with them.
Is there anything you don't know?
Quote from: Rsw on September 18, 2018, 06:10:35 PM
Quote from: 1FSTRK on September 18, 2018, 05:55:42 PM
First we would have to define damage. On the other hand the engineers that designed the trans and the motor company that built it have already defined how much oil it should run and they marked it on the dip stick and put the instructions in writing. Why would anyone now want to argue with them.
Is there anything you don't know?
You have a problem with my logic on this?
Quote from: hd06 on September 18, 2018, 05:44:43 PM
The talk is if the trans is low on oil it will not damage it, how low does it have to be to damage it. is 10oz. low enough.
Plus, how lang was it run low? A few miles? probably no big deal. A thousand miles? Might be a big deal.
I would imagine if the engineer specked and oil level, there is a reason why. With HD bean counters if they can run for any length of time on 1/2 the oil they would specify that amount.
The last time was 340 miles, The trip just before Harley put the oil deflector, before that 1100 miles Black Mountain Harley, 1600 miles Back home. It would get down to 10 or 11 oz. That's the lowest it would get.
Quote from: hd06 on September 19, 2018, 03:18:07 PM
The last time was 340 miles, The trip just before Harley put the oil deflector, before that 1100 miles Black Mountain Harley, 1600 miles Back home. It would get down to 10 or 11 oz. That's the lowest it would get.
Where did the oil go? In the primary, out the vent, on the ground? I am asking because my 2017 has "used" some lube also.
It didn't leak out, I don't know crankcase stays 1/2 qt. low that's where I keep it. Harley said I should not check it drive it for 5k till next service. At Bikes Blues BBQ I talked to a Rep. he put a breather hose on the primary and said that should fix the problem so we will see.
Quote from: hd06 on October 07, 2018, 08:44:29 PM
It didn't leak out, I don't know crankcase stays 1/2 qt. low that's where I keep it. Harley said I should not check it drive it for 5k till next service. At Bikes Blues BBQ I talked to a Rep. he put a breather hose on the primary and said that should fix the problem so we will see.
Thanks for the update. Where did they install the breather hose on the Primary? You have a picture??
There is always a "Safety" factor in Volume beyond dipstick volume.
Quote from: hd06 on October 07, 2018, 08:44:29 PM
It didn't leak out, I don't know crankcase stays 1/2 qt. low that's where I keep it. Harley said I should not check it drive it for 5k till next service. At Bikes Blues BBQ I talked to a Rep. he put a breather hose on the primary and said that should fix the problem so we will see.
You talk to your "harley" about loosing oil & they tell you to not check & run it for 5K??? I wouldn't EVER bother talking t o them again! :angry:
Sorry, I didn't make it clear MoCo told me that. 10 oz. is plenty oil for that trans.
Quote from: hd06 on October 08, 2018, 04:43:46 PM
Sorry, I didn't make it clear MoCo told me that. 10 oz. is plenty oil for that trans.
So, for a while now it's been the latest "fashion" and buzz-word for corporations to talk about product and service excellence. Could H-D be setting a new trend? Namely, product and service "adequacy"?
Hmmm...let's give it a try to see how it sounds. We strive for product and service adequacy! Strikes me sort of like when you get a Coke at a restaurant that's lost its fizz.
Quote from: 1FSTRK on September 18, 2018, 05:55:42 PM
First we would have to define damage. On the other hand the engineers that designed the trans and the motor company that built it have already defined how much oil it should run and they marked it on the dip stick and put the instructions in writing. Why would anyone now want to argue with them.
He's not arguing the engineers decision on how much oil should be in the trans. The question is how low is too low for a period of time before damage is done.
Quote from: hd06 on September 19, 2018, 03:18:07 PM
The last time was 340 miles, The trip just before Harley put the oil deflector, before that 1100 miles Black Mountain Harley, 1600 miles Back home. It would get down to 10 or 11 oz. That's the lowest it would get.
did you check to see how much fluid was in your primary?
I'd be willing to bet that if both the tranny and primary were full at the proper levels in the beginning, and then you noticed the tranny was low, and you also say it wasn't leaking any tranny fluid out under the bike...that tranny fluid has more than likely transferred over into your primary.
Who ever at the MoCo told you that 10 ounces of fluid is fine in the tranny..."needs to be fired from their job".
IMHO that is not an acceptable relpy to get from a HD rep.
Every time I check trans if it wasn't showing on dipstick. I would drane trans. check how much came out and how much was in the primary and the differance was in there I been fighting with my local dealer along with Harley customer care. It really got where my local dealer didn't like to see me walk in there building. We had a bike rally in our area and I found a Harley rep.told him my problem and gave him my ref.# It has been 13 times this bike been in for this transfer problem. He took my bike tap a 1/4 pipe thread on back side of primary at the highest point ran a hose up the frame and down a little. He said this should fix it. I put 450 miles and there been no transfer and I have it on my service documents 600 miles and no oil on dipstick. This all started 9/23/16
I put a $70 pushrod in my new bike. One of my friends was having fluid transfer on his 18 Street Glide. He brought his bike over with one of these aftermarket pushrods and asked me to install it and knock out his 5K. His bike was transferring 4-6 ounces every 4-500 miles. He has put 1K on it since with no transfer.
I was amazed at the amount of slop the stock pushrod had on the main shaft. No wonder it was transferring.
I've never noticed any of mine ever transferring, but ordered one anyway. Mostly to ensure I wouldn't have a transfer issue, but also because it is a hair shorter than stock and it brings the friction zone a little bit closer to the grip.
Eventually I'll go with a Grudge Box or DD7 and May put the stock rod back in...
Assuming it was at the correct level to begin with, which, it probably was, the Transmission is basically a Gear Box and not a conventional Transmission. The Gears are bathed in Gear Lubricant and slung throughout also adhering to the Gear Teeth providing lubrication. Draining by gravity also lubricates the Bearings on the Shaft and the Door.
So, I would think 10 oz low would not have adversely affected the serviceability of the Transmission.
With That Being Said, on an extremely Hot day with extended riding, the Bearings may wear more and even become damaged.
The next question is where is the Lubricant? The lack of a Quad Seal, and inadequate replacement Seal often allows it to flow to the Primary on some. (?????)
Which leaves the overflow (pressure tube) on top, the Primary, or, even, perhaps the Crank Case (I have not personally seen this).
The Dealer Communications suggests filling all three holes with known amounts and record. in 5,000 miles drain and record. Evaluate the difference between the three. An increase in Primary and a Decrease in Transmission would indicate it leaking by the Seal.
Here is what I know from dealing with Engineering and Representatives of the MoCo. They're gonna suggest something. It may be to change the Turn Signal Bulb. But, they're going to suggest something even if its not related.
There is no seal between the trans and primary the only way trans fluid can get in the primary is through the clutch pushrod.There a seal between trans and front sprocket.
Quote from: cmashark on January 23, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
I put a $70 pushrod in my new bike. One of my friends was having fluid transfer on his 18 Street Glide. He brought his bike over with one of these aftermarket pushrods and asked me to install it and knock out his 5K. His bike was transferring 4-6 ounces every 4-500 miles. He has put 1K on it since with no transfer.
I was amazed at the amount of slop the stock pushrod had on the main shaft. No wonder it was transferring.
I've never noticed any of mine ever transferring, but ordered one anyway. Mostly to ensure I wouldn't have a transfer issue, but also because it is a hair shorter than stock and it brings the friction zone a little bit closer to the grip.
What $70 push rod and from who? I would like to do that just to get the shorter throw on the clutch. My 17 RGS has lost some trans fluid here and there but seems to be getting better.
Eventually I'll go with a Grudge Box or DD7 and May put the stock rod back in...
Not sure what happened there above, but what $70 pushrod and who from. I would like to do that to mine to get the shorter lever throw. My 17 RGS has lost trans fluid a couple time , but seems to be getting better.
Quote from: Helmwurst on January 24, 2019, 06:04:14 AM
Not sure what happened there above, but what $70 pushrod and who from. I would like to do that to mine to get the shorter lever throw. My 17 RGS has lost trans fluid a couple time , but seems to be getting better.
A shop called Macomb County Choppers on Facebook.
Maybe Harley needs to put a longer dipstick in the trans, problem solved. You have a lot of heat around that trans. you have a cat on one side a crossover on back side and a motor on other side. How hot do you think that trans fluid gets.
Quote from: cmashark on January 24, 2019, 08:05:32 PM
Quote from: Helmwurst on January 24, 2019, 06:04:14 AM
Not sure what happened there above, but what $70 pushrod and who from. I would like to do that to mine to get the shorter lever throw. My 17 RGS has lost trans fluid a couple time , but seems to be getting better.
A shop called Macomb County Choppers on Facebook.
Thanks !! I will check it out
I was talking to an employee of a local bike shop. He had a guy who had his dresser serviced every 5k for a couple years. He used a synthetic gear lube. The guy rode up north and decided, on his trip, to do a complete oil change. A couple months later he was back in the shop for an oil change. The guy didn't replace the trans oil when he did a change on the road. When the shop drained the Trans oil only a couple oz came out. I guess this is a statement of how well engineered the HD tranny is. I was on a trip on my 17 M-8 across country from Fla to Ca. 19 days on the road and 8k miles. When I did a service on my tranny I was 10 oz low. The primary was 10 oz over. The tranny seems to be in as good a shape as when new. YMMV.
Quote from: PIRSCH FIRE WAGON on January 23, 2019, 07:47:42 PM
Assuming it was at the correct level to begin with, which, it probably was, the Transmission is basically a Gear Box and not a conventional Transmission.
Please explain...
deleted...sorry.
I wouldn't want that transmission.
Wow a few liquid ounces,,,,,,,,, :wtf: And no STINK Wow that's has to be a first,And still be good to go,,,,,,,, :idunno: One would think there would be a pile of chit on the Magnet drain plug and a Smell one would never Forget,,,,,,,,, :potstir: (Just Saying)
Quote from: Helmwurst on January 25, 2019, 05:01:17 AM
Quote from: cmashark on January 24, 2019, 08:05:32 PM
Quote from: Helmwurst on January 24, 2019, 06:04:14 AM
Not sure what happened there above, but what $70 pushrod and who from. I would like to do that to mine to get the shorter lever throw. My 17 RGS has lost trans fluid a couple time , but seems to be getting better.
A shop called Macomb County Choppers on Facebook.
Thanks !! I will check it out
The MCC pushrod will not change your clutch engagement point.
If the MCC shaft is shorter, it will not reduce the engagement point? Is there any way to adjust the release point on the hydraulic clutch system?
Quote from: Helmwurst on January 27, 2019, 10:08:38 AM
If the MCC shaft is shorter, it will not reduce the engagement point? Is there any way to adjust the release point on the hydraulic clutch system?
No, the hydraulic clutch s "self adjusting" the piston in the slave cylinder retracts from pressure from the clutch. A shorter rod and the slave cylinder will move only as far as the clutch pushed it to, or pretty much zero clearance.
There is no way to adjust the lever release point. There is a company that manufactures a replacement slave cylinder with a larger diameter to make the clutch pull less and from what I hear the release point is closer to the grip, but it dos not fit all models and it costs a bit of coin.
Quote from: PoorUB on January 27, 2019, 11:12:19 AM
There is no way to adjust the lever release point. There is a company that manufactures a replacement slave cylinder with a larger diameter to make the clutch pull less and from what I hear the release point is closer to the grip, but it dos not fit all models and it costs a bit of coin.
Simple on every other decent bike UB, they just have an adjustable lever. Hell, $7K dirt bikes have them...
Aim-Tamachi.com "Light Force slave cylinder"
Look guys if your having transfer problems have Harley put a breather hose on the primary This The Fix and it doesn't cost you a red cent. Like I said a few post back I've had transfer problem from day one. I will post some pix if need be.
Quote from: hd06 on January 27, 2019, 05:09:52 PM
Look guys if your having transfer problems have Harley put a breather hose on the primary This The Fix and it doesn't cost you a red cent. Like I said a few post back I've had transfer problem from day one. I will post some pix if need be.
I would like to see the pictures you are referring to. If it is not too much trouble.
[attach=0] This the first time attempt a pix
[attach=0] This is the second attempt of sending a picture
Thanks.. Kinda ugly,does it need to be that big?
I had the camera under the fuel tank to get a better pix. It's not that bad but problem solved. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make a Omelette.