HarleyTechTalk

Technical Forums => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: Ken R on March 10, 2019, 03:14:54 PM

Title: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 10, 2019, 03:14:54 PM
I've been through several Harleys over the past 18 years.  Haven't left any of them stock.  The original TC-88's were anemic; they'd hardly pull your hat off.   Boring, new cams, new head gasket,etc. etc.etc. were all needed for a heavy touring  bike that couldn't maintain 70 mph in an uphill headwind. 

My current 2013, with all the work and improvements (cams, breather, exhaust), doesn't come close to the performance and fuel efficiency of the new stock M-8's.  I'm totally happy with the performance and efficiency of the 2013. 

Other than maybe a pair of Fulsac cores to get the sound back like I'm used to and a new  PowerVision unit, it appears  that really nothing else is needed.  It would be nice to have the higher performance without risking warranty issues. 

Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: stro1965 on March 10, 2019, 07:22:33 PM
Hi Ken! Like you, I always seem to do stuff to my motors. I just did stage 2 on my M8 107". I have ridden the 114" and I THINK that might be the first one ever that I'd leave stock. But probably not.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Hammerhandle on March 10, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
I loved my TC's, my 103 would shake my neighbors windows.
I love the torque of the M8, but honestly If i could have my 19 RGS with the 103 out of my 2016 or even a 110, It would be the perfect combo IMO
Now the only reasons I say that, is because 1. Harley dick slapping people for even a stage 1 w/o their tuner (u know the aftermarket that helps sell your bikes and keeps your company alive :angry:), and 2. the sumping issue, I hate that i need to worry about grenading an engine (regardless of mods) when its their flawed design that is causing the issues.  :doh:

Harley, you put 2 band-aids on $20 - $30k dollar bikes, nowhere in the world should that be acceptable.
IE: My brother purchased a used Infinti q50 or whatever the model # is for the SUV, a month after purchase, the timing chains went, and Nissan stated, yup thats a known issue, we will even replace the entire engine with a brand new one if need be, and it cost him zero, because it was their design failure that was causing the issues with the engines, but failures didnt always occur, so they corrected as they failed FREE regardless of age, or mileage, or aftermarket warranty.
That is how you keep customers returning to your brand, even if its used.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: hd06 on March 11, 2019, 02:13:57 AM
   You ask if Harley is good enough without engine work? If Harley put a rocket engine on a bike someone would tweak it for more torque. Like to see the stage kits for that.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Breeze on March 11, 2019, 04:03:51 AM
It's morally illegal to leave a Harley completely stock.  :slap:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: PFWiz on March 11, 2019, 07:46:27 AM
My 117" 2018 CVO Limited had more power stock than my stage 2 2011 RGU 103" had. The new 114" should be about the same. They are also much smoother!
I think that is the info you were looking for...
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Maddo Snr on March 11, 2019, 03:19:52 PM
Short answer is 'yes'.

The 107 is a better motor than the 114 IMO. The 107 is right on the limit of acceptable B:S ratio. No 114 I've ridden is as smooth at speed as a 107.

I did a stage 1 to my 107 and it lowered the comfortable pulling RPMs by 400-500 and made it loud enough to hear my shift points rather than watch the tacho.

I'm happy with the bike now, I don't get the concept of making more HP on a bike with marginal handling and braking, (except for the northbound on-ramp from Rancho Cal to the 15 at 7:30am.  :SM: )
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Desertwndrr on March 11, 2019, 04:00:10 PM
They are great without engine work.  They are greater with a little engine work.

I think that they do need at least a Stage I.  They just run better opened up a bit.  I ran mine for a while as a Stage I and really enjoyed it (this is coming off a 2012 with a 124"), however when I came across a good used cam I swapped it in.  Just for the simple reason that I do my own work and by the time that you have a Stage I with a tuner it is pennies to take that additional step.  Plus I wanted to swap out that inner cam bearing and upgrade the oil pump with the new inboard cover.  (Mine was an Aug 2018 build)

With the cam I don't feel the need to crack the motor open at all.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: BradLH on March 12, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
I went from a TC88 Electra Glide with stage 1 to a 2018 107 Street Glide and the M8 seemed to have substantially more power.  I put 18,000 miles on it bone stock then did a stage 2.  I certainly didn't need to do anything to it but it sounds better now and is more fun to ride. 

The downside is the fuel mileage dropped 6 mpg after the mods.  Before, I would make the run from Carlsbad, NM to El Paso, TX without worrying.  Now I feel I'd need to carry extra fuel for that 170 mile stretch since there's no gas available between those towns.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on March 12, 2019, 11:44:52 PM
Ken I also have a 2013 and was less than impressed with the stock performance. But after A/C, exhaust, cams and tune I loved it.

Now that's a bit of coin to do all that, but once finished I was very satisfied.

Just my luck in 2014 they actually put a decent cam in a Harley from the factory and I've said for years that all the newer ones need are a good set of mufflers and a good dyno tune.

I've been away from the dealer for a couple years but I bet that still holds true. Everybody bitches about having to upgrade them but honestly since the 103 came around I feel they've definitely been at least adequate.

If you're not a horsepower junkie get one and do a good muffler upgrade and a comprehensive dyno tune and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: hd06 on March 13, 2019, 02:34:14 AM
   The 103 is a good motor my biggest problem was the heat from the cat,that can be fixed. Test rode a M8 in 2016 when they came out and fell in love the torque it great. My advice if you love your bike don't test ride a M8.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 08:43:18 AM
This is good information.  Thank you. 
I'm basically happy with my 2013 after having installed the CR575 cams, mufflers, air cleaner, and the tune. 
But the friends with whom I do a good amount of touring mileage around the country have all updated to 2019.  So there's that peer pressure. 

And I don't want to be the one that breaks down because of being on the oldest motorcycle.  (one friend's 2013 broke down in Boise, Idaho and needed new engine cases.  We left him in Boise and continued on without him.  He had to rent a motor there to continue to Glacier National Park to meet us and then leave us to take it back to Boise and fly home.  It was expensive for him and it deprived him of half the trip.

I know a new motorcycle is no guarantee, but my 2013 is pushing 60K miles now and I think about the aftermarket cam and other stuff every time I leave N. Texas. 

I'm thinking that this time, I'd like to just leave a motorcycle stock except for mufflers and a tune.   The M-8 engine would be more powerful and efficient than my 103 with everything I've done to it. 

So the bug has bitten. 

Ken



Quote from: sfmichael on March 12, 2019, 11:44:52 PM
Ken I also have a 2013 and was less than impressed with the stock performance. But after A/C, exhaust, cams and tune I loved it.

Now that's a bit of coin to do all that, but once finished I was very satisfied.

Just my luck in 2014 they actually put a decent cam in a Harley from the factory and I've said for years that all the newer ones need are a good set of mufflers and a good dyno tune.

I've been away from the dealer for a couple years but I bet that still holds true. Everybody bitches about having to upgrade them but honestly since the 103 came around I feel they've definitely been at least adequate.

If you're not a horsepower junkie get one and do a good muffler upgrade and a comprehensive dyno tune and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on March 13, 2019, 08:46:19 AM
Quote from: hd06 on March 13, 2019, 02:34:14 AM
   The 103 is a good motor my biggest problem was the heat from the cat,that can be fixed. Test rode a M8 in 2016 when they came out and fell in love the torque it great. My advice if you love your bike don't test ride a M8.

    :teeth: 

I've yet to ride one but will make it a point to do so this year. I have held off as I'm unwilling to buy the first one or two years of any major changes in a vehicle. Quite often too many initial problems whether it's bikes, cars, or whatever.

Never say never but I don't think I'd drop the coin until or if they ever do something to significantly improve the rear suspension. And it doesn't hurt that I love my 2013...

Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 08:50:47 AM
I wonder why the fuel efficiency dropped so drastically.  Fuel mileage is one of the fun things to watch and compare when on trips with friends.  I'd hate to lose 6 mpg. 
We ride across the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, etc. often and often go 200 miles between fill-ups.   I was hoping to do that with a better reserve in the tank than with my 2013. 
Maybe just mufflers (so I can hear my motor during practice sessions) and a tune wouldn't hurt the mileage. 

Thank you for the feedback.  It's all going in to help me decide to pull the trigger on the new bike . . . or not.

Ken

Quote from: BradLH on March 12, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
I went from a TC88 Electra Glide with stage 1 to a 2018 107 Street Glide and the M8 seemed to have substantially more power.  I put 18,000 miles on it bone stock then did a stage 2.  I certainly didn't need to do anything to it but it sounds better now and is more fun to ride. 

The downside is the fuel mileage dropped 6 mpg after the mods.  Before, I would make the run from Carlsbad, NM to El Paso, TX without worrying.  Now I feel I'd need to carry extra fuel for that 170 mile stretch since there's no gas available between those towns.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on March 13, 2019, 09:20:25 AM
Ken I think with a Stage 1 only the mileage wouldn't likely suffer much, if it all

It could even potentially increase...

They're in their third year of production, I say go for it

Do you have a great dyno guy near you?
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 09:39:27 AM
I have a really good dyno guy!  "The Dyno Difference" here in Dallas.   And I have my PowerVision on which I check the tune annually  and make little tweaks if necessary or desired.

Ken


Quote from: sfmichael on March 13, 2019, 09:20:25 AM
Ken I think with a Stage 1 only the mileage wouldn't likely suffer much, if it all

It could even potentially increase...

They're in their third year of production, I say go for it

Do you have a great dyno guy near you?
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ancient on March 13, 2019, 09:50:53 AM
I've tried out a couple stock 107's. Meh. I do like the smoothness, but I was underwhelmed on the guts part.

My 103 would have them for lunch. Of course it's not stock so not a fair comparison. If I went new I'd have to do some work on it.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: BradLH on March 13, 2019, 02:58:26 PM
Quote from: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 08:50:47 AM
I wonder why the fuel efficiency dropped so drastically.  Fuel mileage is one of the fun things to watch and compare when on trips with friends.  I'd hate to lose 6 mpg. 
We ride across the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, etc. often and often go 200 miles between fill-ups.   I was hoping to do that with a better reserve in the tank than with my 2013. 
Maybe just mufflers (so I can hear my motor during practice sessions) and a tune wouldn't hurt the mileage. 

Thank you for the feedback.  It's all going in to help me decide to pull the trigger on the new bike . . . or not.

Ken

Quote from: BradLH on March 12, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
I went from a TC88 Electra Glide with stage 1 to a 2018 107 Street Glide and the M8 seemed to have substantially more power.  I put 18,000 miles on it bone stock then did a stage 2.  I certainly didn't need to do anything to it but it sounds better now and is more fun to ride. 

The downside is the fuel mileage dropped 6 mpg after the mods.  Before, I would make the run from Carlsbad, NM to El Paso, TX without worrying.  Now I feel I'd need to carry extra fuel for that 170 mile stretch since there's no gas available between those towns.

I'm not sure why it dropped that much.  Ed at The Dyno Difference tuned mine and said it should get 38 to 42 mpg.  I'm on my first trip since the mods and tune.  I've ridden from Oklahoma City to Phoenix and it's averaged 32 to 33 mpg except when running into a 45 mph wind west of Lubbock where it got 22 mpg.  I'm planning to call Ed when I get back to ask about it.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 03:21:14 PM
OH!  You're local here in Dallas!  How about that!

I never get  very good gas mileage in N. Central Texas.  If I keep my 2013 at 60 mph, it'll get 40 to 42 mpg.  But it's hard to go that slowly. :wink:
At 70 to 79 mph (my usual interstate speed depending on the state I'm in) I usually get 38 to 40 mpg but only in other states like New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, etc.

But boy, oh boy . . . in Colorado it's unusual to get less than 45 mpg.  In fact, I got 62 mpg (same bike) from Estes Park to Great Sand Dunes.  (I was never the lead motorcycle in the group and that helps a lot, along with thinner air)  On the way back to DFW, as soon as we filled up in Clayton, NM, mileage dropped back to 33 mpg for the next 3 tanks.   These things have the aerodynamics of bricks. 

So as you can see, playing with gas mileage is one of my joys of motorcycle riding across the country.  That's why your statement about mileage dropping after the mods hit me.

Ken


Quote from: BradLH on March 13, 2019, 02:58:26 PM
Quote from: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 08:50:47 AM
I wonder why the fuel efficiency dropped so drastically.  Fuel mileage is one of the fun things to watch and compare when on trips with friends.  I'd hate to lose 6 mpg. 
We ride across the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, etc. often and often go 200 miles between fill-ups.   I was hoping to do that with a better reserve in the tank than with my 2013. 
Maybe just mufflers (so I can hear my motor during practice sessions) and a tune wouldn't hurt the mileage. 

Thank you for the feedback.  It's all going in to help me decide to pull the trigger on the new bike . . . or not.

Ken

Quote from: BradLH on March 12, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
I went from a TC88 Electra Glide with stage 1 to a 2018 107 Street Glide and the M8 seemed to have substantially more power.  I put 18,000 miles on it bone stock then did a stage 2.  I certainly didn't need to do anything to it but it sounds better now and is more fun to ride. 

The downside is the fuel mileage dropped 6 mpg after the mods.  Before, I would make the run from Carlsbad, NM to El Paso, TX without worrying.  Now I feel I'd need to carry extra fuel for that 170 mile stretch since there's no gas available between those towns.

I'm not sure why it dropped that much.  Ed at The Dyno Difference tuned mine and said it should get 38 to 42 mpg.  I'm on my first trip since the mods and tune.  I've ridden from Oklahoma City to Phoenix and it's averaged 32 to 33 mpg except when running into a 45 mph wind west of Lubbock where it got 22 mpg.  I'm planning to call Ed when I get back to ask about it.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Maddo Snr on March 13, 2019, 03:42:58 PM
KenR: re fuel economy. Like you, I ride long open country rides at 60-70mph and often need to run 250 miles between fuel stops.

My old stage 1 103 2011 Road King was always about 47-49 USmpg. My new stage 1 107 2019 Street Glide is only a touch thirstier at 45-48 USmpg. That's with our terrible low MON fuel.

The trick to good economy IMO is thoroughly tweaking the ignition curves in the tune. Most tuners fuel them up to stoich over the RPM range without tweaking the spark curves. I set my own tune up a tad lean in the 2000-2500 cruising sector as well. There's no reason a fairing M8 stage 1 107 can't get close to 48mpg @ a constant 70mph.

Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Mainecat on March 13, 2019, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 08:43:18 AM
This is good information.  Thank you. 
I'm basically happy with my 2013 after having installed the CR575 cams, mufflers, air cleaner, and the tune. 
But the friends with whom I do a good amount of touring mileage around the country have all updated to 2019.  So there's that peer pressure. 

And I don't want to be the one that breaks down because of being on the oldest motorcycle.  (one friend's 2013 broke down in Boise, Idaho and needed new engine cases.  We left him in Boise and continued on without him.  He had to rent a motor there to continue to Glacier National Park to meet us and then leave us to take it back to Boise and fly home.  It was expensive for him and it deprived him of half the trip.

I know a new motorcycle is no guarantee, but my 2013 is pushing 60K miles now and I think about the aftermarket cam and other stuff every time I leave N. Texas. 

I'm thinking that this time, I'd like to just leave a motorcycle stock except for mufflers and a tune.   The M-8 engine would be more powerful and efficient than my 103 with everything I've done to it. 

So the bug has bitten. 

Ken



Quote from: sfmichael on March 12, 2019, 11:44:52 PM
Ken I also have a 2013 and was less than impressed with the stock performance. But after A/C, exhaust, cams and tune I loved it.

Now that's a bit of coin to do all that, but once finished I was very satisfied.

Just my luck in 2014 they actually put a decent cam in a Harley from the factory and I've said for years that all the newer ones need are a good set of mufflers and a good dyno tune.

I've been away from the dealer for a couple years but I bet that still holds true. Everybody bitches about having to upgrade them but honestly since the 103 came around I feel they've definitely been at least adequate.

If you're not a horsepower junkie get one and do a good muffler upgrade and a comprehensive dyno tune and enjoy it.

So what was the hp and tq on the previous TC you were happy with?  That should help you nail down what you need to do to get similar numbers.  Weight differences are probably not a major factor between bikes unless your switching models?
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: PoorUB on March 13, 2019, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: Maddo Snr on March 13, 2019, 03:42:58 PM
KenR: re fuel economy. Like you, I ride long open country rides at 60-70mph and often need to run 250 miles between fuel stops.

My old stage 1 103 2011 Road King was always about 47-49 USmpg. My new stage 1 107 2019 Street Glide is only a touch thirstier at 45-48 USmpg. That's with our terrible low MON fuel.

The trick to good economy IMO is thoroughly tweaking the ignition curves in the tune. Most tuners fuel them up to stoich over the RPM range without tweaking the spark curves. I set my own tune up a tad lean in the 2000-2500 cruising sector as well. There's no reason a fairing M8 stage 1 107 can't get close to 48mpg @ a constant 70mph.

I agree, the tune isn't 100%

I had a 107" Twin Cam and I could get close to 50 MPG riding easy, average was close to 40 MPG.

My 2016 with the stock 103 internally,  but cams and exhaust  averages  just a touch over 40 MPG.

Many tuners adjust fuel and never touch the spark advance tables. I run a TTS and street tune my motorcycles because most dyno tuners just tune for power. If you know what you are doing you can tune for power and decent MPG at cruise RPM.

I keep advancing the timing in the cruise range until I see the ECM start to pull timing then back it off until the ECM doesn't  pull timing any longer. All the while adjusting the fuel.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 06:55:02 PM
Ed Dahir has been so helpful in my striving for maximum fuel efficiency. 
With his tuning and coaching, we've inched the fuel to stoich at the touring rpm and adjusted the timing. 
I monitored Engine Temperature to make sure it wasn't running too lean.  Engine Temperature was still well within acceptability.  So I left  it like that. 

A tiny bit less fuel over 2-3 hours of steady droning down the highway makes a significant difference at the next pump fill-up. 

My results were almost always 2 to 3 mpg better than my friends' same make-model motorcycles.  Road Glides always got 2-3 mpg better than me.   They slice through the wind better.

So one of the goals of my desire to update to a 2019 (in addition to have a more state-of-the-art and maybe more reliability over my old motor) is to stay in competition with my buds.   :teeth: 
We always go around to the gas pumps and make mental notes of who got the best mileage.  For us, it's part of the fun of the trip. 

Ken

Quote from: Maddo Snr on March 13, 2019, 03:42:58 PM
KenR: re fuel economy. Like you, I ride long open country rides at 60-70mph and often need to run 250 miles between fuel stops.

My old stage 1 103 2011 Road King was always about 47-49 USmpg. My new stage 1 107 2019 Street Glide is only a touch thirstier at 45-48 USmpg. That's with our terrible low MON fuel.

The trick to good economy IMO is thoroughly tweaking the ignition curves in the tune. Most tuners fuel them up to stoich over the RPM range without tweaking the spark curves. I set my own tune up a tad lean in the 2000-2500 cruising sector as well. There's no reason a fairing M8 stage 1 107 can't get close to 48mpg @ a constant 70mph.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: woodreaux on March 14, 2019, 08:52:34 AM
Recently sold my 13 RGU and 17 RGS and bought a 19 Ultra Classic.
The 19 Ultra is without a doubt the best HD that I have bought; said another way it's my favorite to date. 
Performance is very smooth and feels way more planted and balanced when leaned over.
More so than other E-Glides and Road Glides previously owned.
It moves very well on the road and I have plenty of usable power for touring.

I like the handling of the 19 Ultra better than the Road Glides which surprised me and using the same seat on all my bikes keeps my riding position the same.

The 19 Ultra suspension for my weight is not bad - actually I am surprised and impressed.
The 13 had Ohlin's front and rear and I experimented with "NAME BRAND" suspension components that proved to be not very good on the 17RGS.

Since I like riding long distances in remote areas I have decided to keep the 19 Ultra stock except for the AIM Light Force I installed which is awesome for me.
Fuel mileage and noise are the influences for remaining stock and I use the intercom so my master can issue instructions when she's with me.
I have plans for another bike that will not be used as a touring bike.

Riding Durwood's RS-468 Stage 1 recipe was really fun however the low speed manners (pin turns) in the parking lot behind his shop is what really impressed me.
I suspect that his 124 M8 project would be ridiculously fun to ride –

For me there's no doubt the 19 Ultra in stock form with the Light Force for clutch and throttle work in traffic or twisty roads is a great platform.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Mopower on March 15, 2019, 12:53:18 PM
My 2017 FLHXS ran good enough stock that I waited for the warranty to expire before modifying it. It now has Zippers 117 sleeper kit w/ RS 468 cam. BTW gas mileage stock was always 35 mpg, but I can't drive 55  :SM:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 16, 2019, 08:50:47 PM
I sure do thank everyone for their honest opinions and experiences.   :up:

On Friday, I bit the bullet and bought an almost new very low-mileage (like only 1,800) 2019 FLHTK from a dealer in Florida with a huge discount.  The shipper is supposed to pick it up Tuesday or Wednesday with a 3-day delivery time.  They've offered the Extended Warranty for a couple of thousand $$.  I've benefited from the extended warranty on my 2013 to the tune of over $5,000 over the past 5 years; even though I'm fully capable of making all those repairs myself.  In fact, it's in the shop  right now for a new throttle handgrip actuator and a bunch of other stuff that  they diagnosed at the same time. 

I am so accustomed to my yellow/black 2013 but will be putting it up for sale very soon.  I plan to swap some parts between it and the new  motorcycle before selling it.   I'd swap the painted parts if they'd fit . . . but probably few will.  I'm going to miss it. :cry: 

At competitions, the other competitors told me many times that the sidelines filled with spectators when I came to the start line to see the big yellow "full dresser" run the course to compete with the little Road Kings.    And I ate it up.  :SM:

I already know that  I'm going to absolutely hate the hydraulic clutch. :crook: 
I have several options:
1.  Just learn how to deal with the narrow friction zone and hope I can still compete with it.  The cops hate 'em, too.   
2.  Install an AIM hydraulic slave cylinder device to give a wider friction zone and easier clutch effort
3.  Convert it to cable-clutch using the same parts as on some 2019 Softails, a Mueller PowerClutch, etc.  Requires an ECM flash because the cable clutch switch works backwards from  hydraulic.

Don't know which option I'll eventually end up with.  May end up trying all three.

Performance wise, I'm going to leave it stock except for mufflers.  I have a set of CVO mufflers with Fulsac baffles to fit it here in the room with me now.   
I'll be  leaving the rest of the exhaust  system stock  (catalytic converter and all).  There just doesn't seem to be any reason to piddle with it when it already will out-perform my existing  motor which totally satisfies me. 

My three loves in motorcycling are skills practice and coaching, skills competition (to a lesser extent now), and long motorcycle touring/camping in national parks with friends.  We're doing Yellowstone and Grand Tetons for 2 weeks in mid July.  It'll be our second trip up there and my touring buds and I are really looking forward to it. 
I have both a new tent  and now a new motorcycle for the trip; anxious to try both. 

So I'm  planning on thousands of good miles and hours of fun in the cones on the new motor this year with 3 national park camping trips planned and maybe a few competitions. 
This thread was all it took for me to take the plunge and I'm excited.

So I probably won't be lurking in the Twin Cam forum too much any more and will keep constant watch on the Milwaukee Eight technical forum, instead.  It appears that many of my Twin Cam friends are here already.

Ken
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: cmashark on March 16, 2019, 10:56:11 PM
I'm a bit late, but I'm going to say no.  I'm on my 6th M8 and none have been left stock.  Aftermarket stage is nice.  Aftermarket stage 3 looks like a ton of fun.  I'm in the middle of installing an aftermarket stage 2 on my 2019 bike now.  Should be running before church starts...

Chris


Edit:  you'll get use to the clutch.  I try to do the advanced MSF course every year or 2.  In 2017, I did it on a H-D stage 3 CVO Street Glide, and in 2018, I did it on and aftermarket stage 2 (107) Road Glide.  Neither were difficult to maneuver.  I spent about a 2 months with each one prior to taking the course so I would be familiar with the way they would react.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: KE5RBD on March 17, 2019, 12:21:02 AM
I have a 2019 FLHTK also.  The clutch is very touchy and hard to get smooth.  The Throttle Progressivity can be adjusted with a tuner and makes a world of difference.  First M8 Stage 4 117 I rode was very difficult to manage the clutch on starting from stop.  It had been tuned with PV.  Had to soften the throttle table in the 1000 to 2000 from 5 to 20% throttle position.  The clutch is torque sensitive and will actually pull the clutch lever forward for you engaging even more.  It is the clutch itself that causes the sensitivity.  I had a 14 limited with hydraulic and it was smooth on start off. When they changed to A&S on 14 up CVO's and 15 up on some other touring and all in 16 is when started having this issue.  The more torque the engine has the worse it will be unless adjusted in the Progressivity tables.   I looked at a stage 1 map for my bike in Street tuner software and it is adjusted. 
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: hogsty on March 17, 2019, 07:38:42 AM
To keep your extended warranty you can't put your PowerVision on it, or get a professional tune unless they use the SEST.     Oh yeah, you probably need to limit all your shopping to only HD parts.

I have a 2019 and all I did was replace the mufflers so I could hear it and put on a high flow AC.  I did buy a SEST to keep the extended warranty that I received free as part of the deal.  Did a simple download from the SEST and it runs great.  Yes, it could run better, and it will eventually, but I am happy right now.

The fuel mileage didn't suffer any with those mild mods.  You'll get 40-45 mpg at cruise easily.

My biggest complaint with the new bikes is the fans run for about a minute after turning the motor off and they are LOUD! 

All in all I think you'll be very happy with your new bike.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: hd06myway on March 17, 2019, 09:28:09 AM
Harley could make a 200hp at the rear wheel bike and people would still want to "hop" them up...human nature...
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on March 17, 2019, 04:43:00 PM
congratulations Ken  :beer:

mufflers are a nice addition and you've chosen well, do yourself a favor and get it tuned

a few guys are familiar with the HD piece and can help you find a little more power and optimize efficiency

I'm jealous  :smiled:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on March 17, 2019, 04:57:42 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 16, 2019, 10:56:11 PM
I'm a bit late, but I'm going to say no. I'm on my 6th M8 and none have been left stock.  Aftermarket stage is nice.  Aftermarket stage 3 looks like a ton of fun.  I'm in the middle of installing an aftermarket stage 2 on my 2019 bike now.  Should be running before church starts...

Chris


I need to know what you do for a living  :teeth:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 17, 2019, 06:15:53 PM
Quote from: hogsty on March 17, 2019, 07:38:42 AM

I have a 2019 and all I did was replace the mufflers so I could hear it and put on a high flow AC.  I did buy a SEST to keep the extended warranty that I received free as part of the deal.  Did a simple download from the SEST and it runs great.  Yes, it could run better, and it will eventually, but I am happy right now.


I guess we'll have to get used to more time in the saddle between fills.  Oh, wait . . . Mikey should need fuel before us.   :SM:

I'm excited about the new motor; even though I wasn't really looking to buy a new one.  I've said it twice before, "This will be my last motorcycle."  :wink:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 17, 2019, 07:07:18 PM
I've been told that there is something that the tuner can do that makes an after-market tune invisible.  I'll know more within a couple of weeks.

By the way, I'll be removing the tins and having them painted.  Can you guess what color?  :dgust:

Quote from: hogsty on March 17, 2019, 07:38:42 AM
To keep your extended warranty you can't put your PowerVision on it, or get a professional tune unless they use the SEST.     Oh yeah, you probably need to limit all your shopping to only HD parts.

I have a 2019 and all I did was replace the mufflers so I could hear it and put on a high flow AC.  I did buy a SEST to keep the extended warranty that I received free as part of the deal.  Did a simple download from the SEST and it runs great.  Yes, it could run better, and it will eventually, but I am happy right now.

The fuel mileage didn't suffer any with those mild mods.  You'll get 40-45 mpg at cruise easily.

My biggest complaint with the new bikes is the fans run for about a minute after turning the motor off and they are LOUD! 

All in all I think you'll be very happy with your new bike.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: cmashark on March 17, 2019, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: sfmichael on March 17, 2019, 04:57:42 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 16, 2019, 10:56:11 PM
I'm a bit late, but I'm going to say no. I'm on my 6th M8 and none have been left stock.  Aftermarket stage is nice.  Aftermarket stage 3 looks like a ton of fun.  I'm in the middle of installing an aftermarket stage 2 on my 2019 bike now.  Should be running before church starts...

Chris


I need to know what you do for a living  :teeth:

I have a sugar momma... :SM:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on March 18, 2019, 07:01:16 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 17, 2019, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: sfmichael on March 17, 2019, 04:57:42 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 16, 2019, 10:56:11 PM
I'm a bit late, but I'm going to say no. I'm on my 6th M8 and none have been left stock.  Aftermarket stage is nice.  Aftermarket stage 3 looks like a ton of fun.  I'm in the middle of installing an aftermarket stage 2 on my 2019 bike now.  Should be running before church starts...

Chris


I need to know what you do for a living  :teeth:

I have a sugar momma... :SM:

atta boy  :up: :wink:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: calif phil on March 18, 2019, 07:22:56 AM
Congrats on the new bike Ken.  I think you will luv it.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Bpeer1 on March 20, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: Breeze on March 11, 2019, 04:03:51 AM
It's morally illegal to leave a Harley completely stock.  :slap:
Absolutely!!
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: EVOKing94 on March 21, 2019, 10:32:49 AM
I hope so since I bought a 2019 FLHP today.  Can't wait forever for HD to own up and fix the problems you may have.  The older you get the faster time goes.  Hope to leave it stock for a while but have never been able to do that before.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on March 22, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
 At this point, I'm going to say, "YES".
My 2019 Limited arrived yesterday.  I didn't get to start and ride it until last night.  They failed to put the dealer tags on it, so I only made a couple of laps around the neighborhood.

On my 3rd lap, at 30 mph in 2nd gear, I went WOT.  Now, I don't do WOT very often, but I was curious.   

This thing is quick!  Scary quick.  :smilep: In less than 3 seconds I was whizzing by houses at 60 mph!   When it hit 60, I let off. 
I know most of y'all out there might not be satisfied with that, but I was astounded. 

Thinking back to my old 2002 Ultra Classic that couldn't hold Interstate speeds up a gradual incline against the wind, this 2019 motor certainly won't have any problem with that.  It has almost double the advertised torque!  And there's no doubt that it has more get-up-and-go than my 2013 with cams, exhaust, and intake. 

Now, I'll go back to my normal Ken riding and never do that again.   :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Moparnut72 on March 22, 2019, 11:51:42 AM
I have test ridden a couple of M8's. One I took it easy on one as it had only a handful of miles on it. I hate to abuse a new bike even if it belongs to a dealer. A regular guy will own it at some point. The second one had 3,000 miles on it. The salesman told me it was broken in and don't be afraid to get on it. I didn't wring it out but I did step on it some. Amazing amount of power and really smooth engines. I kind of wished I could have waited to get an M8 but my bike burnt up and I didn't want to wait. Nobody was sure that the M8's were going into the Softails in '18 anyway at that time. My Slim with the 110 is pretty quick too and is comparable. Even with all the griping I wouldn't be afraid of buying an M8.
kk
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: KE5RBD on March 23, 2019, 12:24:37 AM
Bought 2019 Limited and was very surprised at performance.  I have owned 10 limited and 14 limited and no comparison.  The 14 was stage 2 and 2 in 1 had Wide Bands and 3.05 gearing and ran well.  This 19 is ever bit as strong and haven't been over 4000 yet.  Always before Performance was first thing I did mods for.  On this one it will be to get rid of that 2500 rpm flare up on start up.  The other thing that exhaust note got to be fixed and throttle table little bit touchy on take off.  Performance will come later.  Roll on at 60 in 6th is as strong as the stage 2 with gearing was.  The performance of the new radio system is so much easier to use.  Really nice if you have used the Rushmore.  Touch screen  buttons are very smooth and easy to use.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sandrooney on March 23, 2019, 06:23:47 AM
I got a 2018 Heritage 114 in September of 18. It is an awesome machine. I traded my 15 RK for it, for reasons other than wanting to. Like age, knees and back issues. I knew in a couple years the RK was going to be too much for me to handle and wanted to trade while it was still worth something.  I thought for sure I would regret it. I love this Heritage. Plenty of power (still box stock) and hands down the best suspension of any Harley I have ever owned.
Just my experience.
SR
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: hogsty on March 23, 2019, 07:11:14 PM
Quote from: Ken R on March 22, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
At this point, I'm going to say, "YES".
My 2019 Limited arrived yesterday.  I didn't get to start and ride it until last night.  They failed to put the dealer tags on it, so I only made a couple of laps around the neighborhood.

On my 3rd lap, at 30 mph in 2nd gear, I went WOT.  Now, I don't do WOT very often, but I was curious.   

This thing is quick!  Scary quick.  :smilep: In less than 3 seconds I was whizzing by houses at 60 mph!   When it hit 60, I let off. 
I know most of y'all out there might not be satisfied with that, but I was astounded. 

Thinking back to my old 2002 Ultra Classic that couldn't hold Interstate speeds up a gradual incline against the wind, this 2019 motor certainly won't have any problem with that.  It has almost double the advertised torque!  And there's no doubt that it has more get-up-and-go than my 2013 with cams, exhaust, and intake. 

Now, I'll go back to my normal Ken riding and never do that again.   :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

:doh:   :crash:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Bpeer1 on April 04, 2019, 09:44:26 AM
Quote from: Breeze on March 11, 2019, 04:03:51 AM
It's morally illegal to leave a Harley completely stock.  :slap:
Yep!!
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Hilly13 on April 05, 2019, 04:13:40 AM
After riding a few of them I'm in the no camp, cam, pipes, intake and tune, minimum.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on June 13, 2019, 06:30:12 PM
I put a pair of 2019 CVO mufflers on the bike with FulSac cores.  But since doing that, I've been reading and watching everything I could find about the warranties being voided.  You see, I bought 4 extra years of extended protection (since the same served me so well with my 2013 Limited).  Looking back, I've received over $7,500 worth of warranty repairs at dealership prices including new radio, throttle repairs, and the big one . . . a whole new engine rebuild with all new parts except the cases.  The crankshaft apparently "scissored".    So having my new 2019 warranty voided is just too much risk for me. 

I wonder what people think about the Screamin' Eagle exhaust system with the catalytic converters in the mufflers.  It's expensive, but not that much more expensive that a Fuel Moto Jackpot header kit and new mufflers.  And it complies with the 2019 warranty conditions.  The motorcycle came with the Screamin' Eagle Pro Street Tuner, so I can simply flash the ECM with one of the compatible Harley Davidson tunes.  It's still going to have 10%+ more torque than my 2013 with all the work I did to it. 

Ken
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on August 09, 2019, 09:26:14 AM
Gonna answer my own questions and comments:

We went on a 3,700 mile motorcycle camping trip from the DFW area to Yellowstone and Tetons.  The motor never gave an ounce of problem.  In fact, I've never been more confident in a motorcycle.  It seems more comfortable.    We all got great gas mileage once we crossed the state line and left Texas (until we crossed the state line and rode back INTO Texas).  Highest I saw was 62 mpg. 

The motor pulled up long inclines without any problems at all.  And when time to pass, it would accelerate from 70 to 85 in 6th gear plenty quickly for me.  (If another rider right behind me was also passing, it wasn't quickly enough  :oops:.    )  So I tried to check the rear view and alter my passing if friends were following me into the oncoming lane. 

I found a Screamin-Eagle High Flow exhaust system (the system with the SS headers and Catalytic Converters in the mufflers, themselves) on eBay for less than half the price of new.  It's still a quiet motorcycle, even with the baffles removed from the mufflers and the Cats doing all the noise suppression.   I'm using the SERT to keep the tune within range (although I'd really prefer a few hours on the Dyno at The Dyno Difference). 

Do I need to do anything more for performance?  I don't think so.   
Although, I might get the Harley "Torque" cam because I like the way it makes the M8 sound.  But not this year . . . maybe next. 


Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: SixShooter14 on August 09, 2019, 09:37:10 AM
Sounds like you've got just about the perfect motorcycle for you. Enjoy it!  :chop: :scoot:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: flh canuck on August 10, 2019, 03:44:13 PM
Congrats on the new ride!

I've owned numerous twin cams - 88, 96 and the last one was a 2013 Road King with the 103. Like previous twin cams, I always added decent cams, exhaust and tuners to wake them up.

Bought a new 2018 Ultra Limited last year with the 107. Love the power and smoothness right out of the box. Didn't like the hydraulic clutch at first but am used to it now and don't even notice it.

Added a Pro-Pipe, Powervision Tuner and S&S air cleaner. Was going to throw a cam in but to be honest, it runs so well now, I have decided to skip the cam change and just ride it as is. Really like the liquid cooled heads. Did a ride through Death Valley last year in spring ( hottest temps were around 105 degrees) and the Milwaukee 8 never skipped a beat. Handled the hot weather with ease vs my previous twin cam motors that would get kind of cranky and complain when ambient temps climbed north of about 95 degrees.

Enjoy your new ride! :chop:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Hossamania on August 11, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
I know you say you don't need a cam, but if you put one in, you'll say yes I guess I did need one after all.
Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Durwood on August 12, 2019, 04:25:37 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 11, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
I know you say you don't need a cam, but if you put one in, you'll say yes I guess I did need one after all.
Just sayin'.
Indeed Hoss. The SE447 isn't a bad cam either for guys like Ken that want to retain the warranty.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: BVHOG on August 12, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Durwood on August 12, 2019, 04:25:37 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 11, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
I know you say you don't need a cam, but if you put one in, you'll say yes I guess I did need one after all.
Just sayin'.
Indeed Hoss. The SE447 isn't a bad cam either for guys like Ken that want to retain the warranty.
447 Reminds me of when they did the 203 back in the day. Very under rated cam.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Durwood on August 13, 2019, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 12, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Durwood on August 12, 2019, 04:25:37 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 11, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
I know you say you don't need a cam, but if you put one in, you'll say yes I guess I did need one after all.
Just sayin'.
Indeed Hoss. The SE447 isn't a bad cam either for guys like Ken that want to retain the warranty.
447 Reminds me of when they did the 203 back in the day. Very under rated cam.
Agreed Bob. Here's an example for those interested.
[attach=0]
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: egstandard on August 13, 2019, 06:50:03 AM
What does it say about our Harleys if we are worried to ride them with 60,000 miles? That's really not a lot for the money spent. I have 175 thousand and change on my 04 flht. Just did a 10,500 mile round tripper. Purred like a kitten. I thought about what I would do if I had a serious breakdown, and the answer was get to a dealer and ride out on a new one. Peer pressure to buy new has never been a great motivator for me.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: PoorUB on August 13, 2019, 07:33:16 AM
Are the M8's good enough  to run stock? I know guys that left their 88" stock, right down  to the exhaust. Only the rider can answer that.

Personally, I would have cams, exhaust and tune long before the warranty ran out.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on August 13, 2019, 06:47:38 PM
That seems really impressive! 
Is the red line the performance without tuning?  Then the blue after tuning?

120 ft lbs!  I remember my old 2002 Ultra couldn't come close to 90 ft lbs with 95 CI.  Only then would it maintain 75 mph Interstate speeds. 

The new cam is inexpensive enough.  Might just do it this winter.  (more for the sound than the performance).

I wonder, if the cam is designed for more torque at lower RPM, does that also means more fuel efficiency at those RPM?   I'd love to be the fuel consumption winner with friends at gas stops.  :teeth: :wink:


Quote from: Durwood on August 13, 2019, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 12, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Durwood on August 12, 2019, 04:25:37 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 11, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
I know you say you don't need a cam, but if you put one in, you'll say yes I guess I did need one after all.
Just sayin'.
Indeed Hoss. The SE447 isn't a bad cam either for guys like Ken that want to retain the warranty.
447 Reminds me of when they did the 203 back in the day. Very under rated cam.
Agreed Bob. Here's an example for those interested.
[attach=0,msg1311046]
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: sfmichael on September 13, 2019, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on August 13, 2019, 07:33:16 AM
Are the M8's good enough  to run stock? I know guys that left their 88" stock, right down  to the exhaust. Only the rider can answer that.
:nix:

"Personally, I would have cams, exhaust and tune long before the warranty ran out."
  :up: :bike:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Durwood on September 14, 2019, 04:50:47 AM
Quote from: Ken R on August 13, 2019, 06:47:38 PM
That seems really impressive! 
Is the red line the performance without tuning?  Then the blue after tuning?

120 ft lbs!  I remember my old 2002 Ultra couldn't come close to 90 ft lbs with 95 CI.  Only then would it maintain 75 mph Interstate speeds. 

The new cam is inexpensive enough.  Might just do it this winter.  (more for the sound than the performance).

I wonder, if the cam is designed for more torque at lower RPM, does that also means more fuel efficiency at those RPM?   I'd love to be the fuel consumption winner with friends at gas stops.  :teeth: :wink:


Quote from: Durwood on August 13, 2019, 03:22:01 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on August 12, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Durwood on August 12, 2019, 04:25:37 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 11, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
I know you say you don't need a cam, but if you put one in, you'll say yes I guess I did need one after all.
Just sayin'.
Indeed Hoss. The SE447 isn't a bad cam either for guys like Ken that want to retain the warranty.
447 Reminds me of when they did the 203 back in the day. Very under rated cam.
Agreed Bob. Here's an example for those interested.
[attach=0,msg1311046]
Yes Ken. Red was with an FP3, blue after tuning with Twin Scan and flashing with Power Vision.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Pirsch Fire Wagon on September 14, 2019, 05:43:23 AM
A lot of my Customers are "conservative" in modifying their Engines. I have them as old as 80 - Good for them!

However, I did a Stage-II with the Torque Cam (Bolt-In with no need for Springs and such) and Slip-On's, removed the CAT and Tuned - now I have a line out the Door. I gotta say it wakes that Engine Up nicely!

BUT, be aware, you'll need a New Cam Plate and Oil Pump with any of these; several changes since the 17' initial Delivery. They "say" the 19's have all the corrections. We'll see.
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: hattitude on September 14, 2019, 03:34:58 PM
Quote from: PIRSCH FIRE WAGON on September 14, 2019, 05:43:23 AM

I did a Stage-II with the Torque Cam (Bolt-In with no need for Springs and such) and Slip-On's, removed the CAT and Tuned - now I have a line out the Door. I gotta say it wakes that Engine Up nicely!

BUT, be aware, you'll need a New Cam Plate and Oil Pump with any of these; several changes since the 17' initial Delivery. They "say" the 19's have all the corrections. We'll see.


Well, not all the 19's have all the corrections, because the MoCo changed the oil pump AGAIN  starting with 2019s built after 5/22/19, and for all the 2020 models...

It now has a different case and they went from a larger 10 lobe gerotor set to a smaller 8 lobe gerotor set...

Maybe now the 2020s have all the corrections......    :nix:
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Jaycee1964 on September 16, 2019, 11:43:38 AM
I have the 107" in my 2018 RGU.  De-cat the head pipe and a set of CVO slip ons with an S&S air change.  Did a tune and its fine for me.  Very smooth and quiet.  Pulls nicely as it is.  I know there is a lot more there to be had for a little work.  If I ever need more or this wears on my i'll do 124" kit and a cam change.  Figure if I do go in, i'll do it all at once.  Iv'e been down the stage 1, 2, 3, 4 road before.  Not interested in doing it again. Next time go strait to BIG..
Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: Ken R on September 22, 2019, 06:12:47 PM
Put 6,000 miles on my 2019 Limited in July and August.  (Motorcycle camping in Yellowstone and then again in Rocky Mountain national parks).  On the ride with me was a mirror image of my old 2013 Limited.  Same basic build,  Air Cleaner, and exhaust.   

I consistently got 2 to 4 mpg better mileage with my M8 with the Screamin' Eagle  exhaust kit and air cleaner.    Our gas stops were dictated by his need for fuel.  I could have go 30 to 50 miles further.  Of course, that only matters if, on a trip, a fuel stop can be omitted.   :smile:

But it was fun to compare fuel efficiency. 

We always ride side-by-side, so there isn't any drafting effect.   Actually, I get better mileage solo than when riding "tandem" (side by side).  I think it's because when tandem, we drag a lot  more air with us.  The air in the small space between us gets dragged along.   
Of course, when drafting, gas mileage goes up like 4 mpg.  When he was running low, he'd ride a few feet behind me  bicycle style, to conserve fuel to ensure making it to the next town.   We both have PowerVision units and can see precisely how much fuel we've used.  My PV is consistently within .1 gallons of the pump reading at fill-ups.  It's all part of our fun of traveling.

Ken

Title: Re: Are the new stock 2019 M-8's good enough without engine work?
Post by: PBSTN on September 22, 2019, 06:59:11 PM
For me. It is about dependability. If there is no sumping or migrating. Then I'm all for the m8. But for 25 -30 grand. It better be right.