81 fxs with a kicker question

[egstandard]

I just picked up this 2 owner 81fxs. Unmolested except for pipes and an S&S B carb. I'm having no luck kickstarting it except for when it has been run and shut off for no more then a half hour. It has the stock electronic ignition. What's the secret here?

[Ohio HD]

B carbs are either too rich or too lean when trying to start hot with a kicker. You have to play with it, throttle closed. throttle cracked open, maybe kick through with the ignition off once or twice, then ignition on and kick. There's no set formula as jetting, motor condition, etc. all play a part in this. Also a B carb on a basically stock bike is way to much carb. 

[egstandard]

I've got a bunch of cv carbs here. Was thinking about going that route.

[Ohio HD]

That would be my plan too. Probably notice an improvement in the way it runs and takes throttle.

[egstandard]

I did that swap years ago on a 79 with no kicker. Ran excellent and got over 40mpg.

[david lee]

just read this from way back.  ign off 2 kicks full throttle and choke on. then the same with choke off.  then find compression stroke, ign on and kick.  on mine full choke no throttle and press the button this is with no accelorator pump

[guppymech]

I've got a '84 FXE that is kick only.  I didn't have any luck getting consistent starts until I ditched the stock electronic ignition and went with points.  My bike is completely stock except for pipes, Super E carb, points ign and no electric starter (I took it off) I get 45 mpg around town.  I've read a lot of good things about the B carbs.

[FSG]

I've got a bunch of cv carbs here. Was thinking about going that route.

I gave a brother a CV off an 05 Softail, he put it on an 84 FXEF which now starts easy-as   

[bump]

I have been running a S&S B carb on a 78 fxs for 30 years. When kicking cold just pull enrichener up, turn key on and don't turn throttle. Kick it through a couple times it should fire right up if points and timing are set right. You just have to learn how it starts.

[egstandard]

It has no points. Electronic makes it harder tokickstart. It will kickstart within a half hour of shutting the bike off after a run. But never has on a cold engine. I need to find the right sequence I guess. But I'm gonna ditch the B anyway.

[egstandard]

FSG. Thanks for those pics. I assume I will have to find a stock shovel manifold to use the adapters that are available. The S&S manifold has a wider center to center bolt spread doesn't it? All the adapters I see say 2.5 inches.

[david lee]

I have been running a S&S B carb on a 78 fxs for 30 years. When kicking cold just pull enrichener up, turn key on and don't turn throttle. Kick it through a couple times it should fire right up if points and timing are set right. You just have to learn how it starts.

im just a slacko why kick when you can press a button. im with you ive had my s&s b on my 1980 lowrider since 84 and its been faultless.bike could sit for 6 mths and will start first press of that magic button

[FSG]

FSG. Thanks for those pics. I assume I will have to find a stock shovel manifold to use the adapters that are available. The S&S manifold has a wider center to center bolt spread doesn't it? All the adapters I see say 2.5 inches.

yes he used the stock manifold and a rubber push on adapter as that is all that was available to him

there are better options than the rubber push on available in the USA

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[bump]

I have been running a S&S B carb on a 78 fxs for 30 years. When kicking cold just pull enrichener up, turn key on and don't turn throttle. Kick it through a couple times it should fire right up if points and timing are set right. You just have to learn how it starts.

im just a slacko why kick when you can press a button. im with you ive had my s&s b on my 1980 lowrider since 84 and its been faultless.bike could sit for 6 mths and will start first press of that magic button

When the battery gets where it won't hold a charge and you can't get a battery for a couple weeks you kick it. I have found it will start if kicked with only 6 volts showing on volt meter. I use the electric foot most of the time.

[dablaze]

There are decant adaptors on EBay for about $30. Expect to have to reject the CV, it's a paint to get them set up right but they are nice once they are set up. Another possibility is a. Aftermarket electronic ignition that has a kick start setting.

Craig

[Burnout]

just read this from way back.  ign off 2 kicks full throttle and choke on. then the same with choke off.  then find compression stroke, ign on and kick.  on mine full choke no throttle and press the button this is with no accelorator pump

The carb type really determines most of the starting technique

On a B carb - (and an E or a CV or Mikuni).
Kicks with the choke on and throttle open do little to nothing. When the throttle is opened air is not drawn through the choke passage. Kicks on a cold motor with the throttle closed do little if anything. Whoever wrote that had some serious issues or was smoking some high grade.

Here is mine, 1 poke at the kicker hand choked (wipe gas off hand) start it with the throttle cracked..
In the shop I give them a 2 second blast of spray cleaner (so I don't get gas on my hand)

Most important to starting is good hot idle settings.
If the idle is too slow (shame on you)(you must buy pistons by the six pack) it won't get enough air to fire.
If the idle is set cold the plugs will be blackened, you will have to make some kind of sacrifice to the gods of combustion.
If the valves are set hot (or even warm), you will have to warm it up with the kicker.
A crappy exhaust can even make starting difficult.

If you have gathered a crowd of watchers, don't try to be a hero, get them to push start you (instead of standing around laughing).
You have to approach kick starting with a Zen state, if you get mad and flail the bike will win or hurt you.
Do not attempt a kick start with your jacket on, your pistol will fall out in the dirt. < this will spoil your Zen state and ding up your pistol.
Unless you are demonstrating kicking technique, key on - kill switch on.
Remember when it fires to check the fuel valve, so you don't have to start it again.

Very important!!!! REMOVE ROTOR LOCK BEFORE STARTING. It will almost always start on the first kick with the rotor lock on!
You will forget to remove the rotor lock and have to start it again, when it stalls while you remove the lock and then refuse to restart.
Or you will dump it when the front wheel locks and it spits your girlfriend off.
You will bend your new apes trying to pick up the bike, and the motor will be flooded with fuel from laying in its side. Back to no start....

[egstandard]

Craig, Dynatek or DTT offer those ignitions?

[dablaze]

A problem with the aftermarket ignitions and kicker bikes is that many of these ignitions require a few rotations before they fire (not an issue with an electric starter but a pain when kicking)

I do know the Crane hi4 had a setting for kicker, I had good luck with the one I installed on a friends bike that was kicker only.

The Dyna S I know for sure does not have a setting for this, but some get it to work anyways. Any ignitions that don't have a kicker setting can work but you tuning would have to be spot on.

I used to love a points system back when I had to kick a lot.

Craig

[david lee]

saw a guy once trying to kick start a panhead when leaving the pub.it was the funniest thing.then a guy felt sorry for him , walked over a started it with 1 kick

[Burnout]

A Dyna-S is not an electronic ignition it is a points replacement system.     
It's output is the same as points, it will even burn up your coil if you leave the key on, just like points.

Most E/Ignitions have provisions for programming kick or electric start, whether by a switch or with software.

[Burnout]

saw a guy once trying to kick start a panhead when leaving the pub.it was the funniest thing.then a guy felt sorry for him , walked over a started it with 1 kick

See there! Pan heads don't have disc brakes, so there is no place for a rotor lock, which would guarantee a 1 kick start!   

[One4Tone]

...yes true, but go fast pan heads need stop fast brakes...

[JW113]

Super Bs are for guys that really want a Super B, just because and for no good reason. I was one of those, had one on my Ironhead. Take a peek at my post about the Ironhead on the dyno. As of a couple weeks ago, it now has a CV, and Super B is now hanging on the garage wall (carburetor graveyard) with all the other dead carbs.

-JW

[david lee]

B carbs are either too rich or too lean when trying to start hot with a kicker. You have to play with it, throttle closed. throttle cracked open, maybe kick through with the ignition off once or twice, then ignition on and kick. There's no set formula as jetting, motor condition, etc. all play a part in this. Also a B carb on a basically stock bike is way to much carb.

ive been running a b on a stocker that came off a big bore motor 40 yrs ago and works great.all i did was re jet it

[JW113]

If you are happy with it, fantastic. But then you don't know how much better it would run with a CV, now do you? Just sayin'!


-JW

[david lee]

If you are happy with it, fantastic. But then you don't know how much better it would run with a CV, now do you? Just sayin'!


-JW

there so simple.10 minutes to remove and dismantle. now that youve mentioned BEER

[One4Tone]

..I have a 1975 fx...I used to start it first kick...10 out of 10...Then about 4 years ago It started giving me headaches. I had an old Mikuny round house style that had been on the bike 30 years...put on electrionic single fire ignition..ran good once it started...but srtill tough to kickstart, put on a brand new Bendix 9original style...seemed to help but still no satisfaction. Bought a used electric start..with all the related parts..luckily I had the right clutch housing with the ring gear, bought the solenoid, jackshaft, support braket for the starter, FXE battery box and Fxe battery It feels like a brand new bike, starts really well has that perfect idle. Yes it cost me a pretty penny to get it right...but I can not be happier. I got a few late model twinkis, a buell,...but this 75  pretty well original is my favourite right now...now I need forward controls,...does it ever end?...bottom line put on electric start...you will never be sorry..keep the kicker for looks and if ever ya wanna impress the ladies...

[Hossamania]

I hate to say it, but the kicker impresses the guys more than it impresses the girls.

[david lee]

why kick when you can press a button

[Hossamania]

why kick when you can press a button

Well, back in the day when electric start was an option, many did not order it because it wasn't "manly enough". Also, it added weight, cost, and complexity. Just like the early days of power windows on cars. Seems silly now, but old ideas die hard.

[JW113]

Not to mention that certain visceral satisfaction of kicking over a big twin, and having it actually fire up. Man over machine. Childish? Perhaps, but satisfying none the less.


-JW

[david lee]

i agree mr hossamania & jw but never had a hd pre electric start and at 60 i dont plan on kick startn bikes now

[One4Tone]

...I have had to kick my bike before the electric foot..up to 40 times.(used to start first kick)..now that's bound to take a few miles off your ride. Granted I used to weigh 240...now down to 210..don't know if that's a factor...but my fx has some heavy compression...with my hands on the bars...the kicker will hold my weight..in the upper position..the bike is timed right, good new Bendix..(a little heavy on gas)..but she is fast for a shovel...Hoss..the guys will have a serious look on their face watching you kick start first kick...but the ladies put on a smile...I go for the smile

[Hossamania]

I go for the smile

I can understand that!

[david lee]

...I have had to kick my bike before the electric foot..up to 40 times.(used to start first kick)..now that's bound to take a few miles off your ride. Granted I used to weigh 240...now down to 210..don't know if that's a factor...but my fx has some heavy compression...with my hands on the bars...the kicker will hold my weight..in the upper position..the bike is timed right, good new Bendix..(a little heavy on gas)..but she is fast for a shovel...Hoss..the guys will have a serious look on their face watching you kick start first kick...but the ladies put on a smile...I go for the smile

i prefer the button smile especially if your kickn 40 times

[One4Tone]

...not kickin at all now..push the button and it's instant potato idle..love it..

[guppymech]

..I have a 1975 fx...I used to start it first kick...10 out of 10...Then about 4 years ago It started giving me headaches. I had an old Mikuny round house style that had been on the bike 30 years...put on electrionic single fire ignition..ran good once it started...but srtill tough to kickstart, put on a brand new Bendix 9original style...seemed to help but still no satisfaction. Bought a used electric start..with all the related parts..luckily I had the right clutch housing with the ring gear, bought the solenoid, jackshaft, support braket for the starter, FXE battery box and Fxe battery It feels like a brand new bike, starts really well has that perfect idle. Yes it cost me a pretty penny to get it right...but I can not be happier. I got a few late model twinkis, a buell,...but this 75  pretty well original is my favourite right now...now I need forward controls,...does it ever end?...bottom line put on electric start...you will never be sorry..keep the kicker for looks and if ever ya wanna impress the ladies...

You might want to do a leakdown or cranking compression check of your engine. Kickstarting a Big Twin is kind of like a "canary in the coal mine" of engine condition.  A electric starter will fire a weak cylinder(s) whereas your foot won't.  Last year my Shovel went from a easy starter to a 40 kicker.  I did a leakdown test and the front exhaust valve was leaking, I couldn't tell anything was wrong once I got it running.

[One4Tone]

...you might have a point...I'll check compression ..with electric start it's a 5 minute job..and more accurate...Motor was built over 20 years ago...sat many years..previous owner got nailed for impaired...then by the time he got his licence back the dog chewed the rubber footpegs and whatever wiring he could get at...

[Burnout]

Compression test will not show a small leak.

Anything less than 90# will start like a beyotch.

That should not stop the other cylinder from firing though and that will bring the speed up high enough that a weak cylinder will fire. That will get it running to get it where you can work on it, but it will eat it's self up if you continue to run it like that.