HarleyTechTalk

Is it possible to extract the tune info (the MAP) from an ECM that's been programmed with TTS? I realize that you can't overwrite the data, but for instance can a PV be connected to the ECM and extract the TTS MAP and allow you to save it as a PVT MAP on your PC?   

TTS locks the ecm to prevent this very activity. Paranoia at its best.

I wasn't sure about the extraction, but knew no overwriting of the data.

Overwriting was the "justification". Paranoia was the reason though.

Blue VCI's contain the last map flashed through that VCI, as well as the MTE file.
If you have a black VCI, you'd have to contact whoever flashed the last map through the VCI, to see if they kept a copy of that map.

Quote from: Coyote on August 08, 2023, 08:56:57 AMTTS locks the ecm to prevent this very activity. Paranoia at its best.

Maybe he just didn't want someone to hack the stuff he does? I remember when he brought out "narrow band" tuning and everyone one laughed and said it couldn't be done. They still can't get it right. Now with torque management and RDRS the TTS is the only one capable of doing it right. Now I get locked out of bikes because PV, SESPT and DL allows you to flash the wrong calibration into a bike. TTS is the only one that reads the ecm first to stop you from doing it. Hands down the best tuning device on the market.   

Quote from: lonewolf on August 08, 2023, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: Coyote on August 08, 2023, 08:56:57 AMTTS locks the ecm to prevent this very activity. Paranoia at its best.

Maybe he just didn't want someone to hack the stuff he does?

Yes, that's what I said. From what I've heard, it didn't stop it from getting hacked either. There are better ways to protect ones intellectual property. I've spent most of my life designing embedded electronic devices and know how to protect from IP theft without disadvantaging my customers. But that's JMO.

Here's the the guys situation. His black VCI was physically damaged, and no longer works. He has the MT8 file but without a black VCI it means nothing. So if he buys a blue VCI, he has to have the bike tuned again. If he buys a PV he has to have the bike tuned again. If he goes the PV route, he also has to either get the ECM unlocked (by TTS) or buy a new ECM and have HD set it up for his bike.

After learning from me that the TTS locks the ECM, and that if he buys a new blue VCI that it's not backwards compatible to his MT8 file, I'm 99% sure he's going to buy a PV unit.

This all started by his replacing the SE mufflers he had on it with Neighbor Haters, and he started getting decel pop. The bike is a 2011 RK, and he bought it new. I also expect that he'll keep it for many years to come. So backwards compatibility means something to him. 


 

At one time Fuel Moto could unlock them. I'm not up to date so you'd have to ask. Regardless, they are a good place to buy the PV from.

Quote from: Coyote on August 08, 2023, 09:16:27 AMOverwriting was the "justification". Paranoia was the reason though.

If not shear arrogance....

He won't be able to buy a blue TTS, he'll need one of the new BT ones. Even tho the 4 pin's aren't  available yet (hoping for the end of August) he shouldn't have a problem with copying and pasting his map into a newer file. The reason for the copy and paste is there is updated calibrations. The TTS will work with an MT7 without having to copy and paste. If he's in a hurry he could buy the green analogue TTS for $5 less than a PV1.

Quote from: guydoc77 on August 08, 2023, 01:31:32 PM

Quote from: Coyote on August 08, 2023, 09:16:27 AMOverwriting was the "justification". Paranoia was the reason though.

If not shear arrogance....

Well if you're the best at what you do..... I don't get all the dislike for the guy. Anytime I have a question or issue he's there to help. Maybe it's because I listen? I don't know as I'm new at this, only been doing it for 15 years. 

Quote from: lonewolf on August 08, 2023, 01:39:32 PMHe won't be able to buy a blue TTS, he'll need one of the new BT ones. Even tho the 4 pin's aren't  available yet (hoping for the end of August) he shouldn't have a problem with copying and pasting his map into a newer file. The reason for the copy and paste is there is updated calibrations. The TTS will work with an MT7 without having to copy and paste. If he's in a hurry he could buy the green analogue TTS for $5 less than a PV1.

The decision on what direction he goes is up to him of course. I'm just trying to get him up to speed on what either direction he goes entails. I just opened up a 2010 ~ 2012 MAP, an MT9. It's the same issue that I have with the 2008 MAP, and why I sold my blue VCI some time back. There's no adjustment for primary changes. He runs a 32 tooth motor sprocket. So he needs to be able to adjust that so the sixth gear light works and his cruise control. TTS doesn't have that adjustment in an MT9 until they added the gear ratio tables in later years.

I haven't told him about the gearing yet, but when I do I'm sure he'll go PV as I did.

That's important. I can't remember what I did on my 07 with the 49T clutch basket. Golden years 

Well the MT8 did have the ability to change primary ratios, I assume the MT7 did as well. It was common for earlier Twin Cams to have different primary ratios (24 x 37 and 25 x 36). When I asked why that couldn't be added to the MT9 files I really didn't get an answer other than send the MAP in. That would be fine as long as you never need to change it again. I honestly hate to bother anyone to make changes like that when I should be able to do it when experimenting.

I'd give my friend my black VCI if he could still add a license to it, but as I understand it that's no longer available for the black VCI. 

I just got off the phone with him. He's going to put the SE mufflers back on and figure it out this Winter. A smart move in my opinion.   

Have you checked the Vision's 009/044 level cals and see what tables they have to address primary gearing?

When I run into issue like these.  I email the manufacture and have him make the change in the back ground and just email me back the cal.

I have a PV MAP for a 2010 Touring with TBW, it has the gear ratio table to adjust both the primary and the secondary transmission gearing with. I would guess this to be similar to an 009 TTS MAP.

I found the spreadsheet and instructions that Dynojet sent to me regarding the changing of primary ratio. It's attached if anyone is interested in it.


You cannot view this attachment.

I realize that not everyone uses spreadsheets, so I made the example of changing the primary gearing in PV below.







- Open the Primary Drive Gear Change tool provided                                       
- Enter the EXACT tooth count for the new and old compensator gears into the appropriate fields                                       
                                       
- Enter the EXACT tooth count for the clutch in the appropriate fields                                       
- Once you have entered the required information, the tool will give you the "MULTIPLIER" for the ratios                                       
                                       
- Write down or copy and paste that MULTIPLIER value you were given                                       




Once you have your MULTIPLIER, follow the next steps to change the ratios in the tune:                                   
                                   
- Open the tune you wish to change into the software                                   
- Go to the GEAR RATIO table of the tune                                   
- Highlight ALL of the gear ratio values in that table                                   




- Go to the math toolbar of the software and enter the MULTIPLIER value you received from the other tool                                   
                                   



- The resulting values will be correct for the gear change                                   




If nothing else needs to be changed within the tune, send it to the PV and flash the ECM.                                   

Quote from: Ohio HD on August 08, 2023, 04:14:32 PMI just got off the phone with him. He's going to put the SE mufflers back on and figure it out this Winter. A smart move in my opinion.   

And, maybe sell the Neighbor Haters on Ebay. lol

Quote from: blackhillsken on August 12, 2023, 07:31:32 AMAnd, maybe sell the Neighbor Haters on Ebay. lol

Yeah, that may be part of the plan.