Hey, just pulled the cam support plate and oil pump out of the '02 Fatboy and I'm wondering if there are any tell tale wear marks that you can see that would indicate or suggest anything like the need to replace the oil pump etc.
When I took the lifters out, they looked very good for what I assume are oem original lifters with 30K miles on them. Then after removing the cam plate the scoring on the end of the pinion shaft had me a little concerned.
I am yet to measure the actual run out on the pinion shaft, that will happen tomorrow.
Anything look odd to you guys?
Cheers.
pinion shaft
End of pinion shaft runs in the cam plate I would look carefully at the bushing in the cam plate as that looks like a bit of unusual wear from the photos and would be the biggest issue that shows up in the photos.
Oil pump pull the gears out and check for chips or cracks and run you fingernail in the pump and see if anything catches and if not should be good to go.
Also it could just be the lighting and the photo as shown in these 2 photos taken under different light of the same pinion shaft
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Thanks Scotty, yes it's hard to capture exactly what I can see in a photo. I will check the cam plate bushing like you said.
Your 02 will be a timkin bottom end. Check the pinion and drive side runout to see what it is and then check the timkin bearing play. It may need an adjustment with shims to bring it into spec. If so remeasure the pinion and drive side runout after adjustment to see if it improved or any of the pinion runout is drive bearing play related. You will get a more true idea of the condition of the flywheels and runout.
you didn't show a pic of the camplate where the pump rides.....with the kidney slots.
Quote from: kd on May 29, 2021, 06:38:40 AM
Your 02 will be a timkin bottom end. Check the pinion and drive side runout to see what it is and then check the timkin bearing play. It may need an adjustment with shims to bring it into spec. If so remeasure the pinion and drive side runout after adjustment to see if it improved or any of the pinion runout is drive bearing play related. You will get a more true idea of the condition of the flywheels and runout.
Thanks kd, how do I measure the timkin bearing play? Is the method outlined in the FSM?
Thanks
I believe so. It's also been discussed on here several times and a search for timkin adjustment, measurement or end play will probably find it.
Quote from: Rodman on May 29, 2021, 11:51:19 AM
you didn't show a pic of the camplate where the pump rides.....with the kidney slots.
Thanks, I will look at that as well.
Cheers
Wear to one side will indicate runout on the pinion shaft. It won't necessarily mean bad runout but usually means some. It will go hand in hand with the marks you have on the shaft. They are usually not all the way around also.
Quote from: kd on May 29, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
Wear to one side will indicate runout on the pinion shaft. It won't necessarily mean bad runout but usually means some. It will go hand in hand with the marks you have on the shaft. They are usually not all the way around also.
Thank you 👍
Quote from: kd on May 29, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
Wear to one side will indicate runout on the pinion shaft. It won't necessarily mean bad runout but usually means some. It will go hand in hand with the marks you have on the shaft. They are usually not all the way around also.
Cam plate bushing looks like it has a fair bit of wear?
Quote from: Adam76 on May 29, 2021, 05:37:17 PM
Quote from: kd on May 29, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
Wear to one side will indicate runout on the pinion shaft. It won't necessarily mean bad runout but usually means some. It will go hand in hand with the marks you have on the shaft. They are usually not all the way around also.
Cam plate bushing looks like it has a fair bit of wear?
Only way to know is measure it and the pinion. Bob
Will be interesting to see what the run out on the pinion shaft is :pop:
:agree: it's the only way to tell what is going on (if anything). Is there any way to know the the cam plate is the original? If the pinion shows runout, then the sprocket side timkin set runout and tolerances are the next check. It will paint a picture of what the next step will be. As said, the runout (if any) can be a product of timkin bearing set adjustment or more.
Thanks, the cylinders and heads are off and ready for the machine shop, but I still have to get the pistons off the rods before I can check the pinion shaft runout.... hopefully will get to that tomorrow.
I guess I need to order a new crankshaft bushing for the cam plate?
Measure and decide. If the bushing is worn that bad the crank is likely slipped. I would just toss the plate and get a new one, OEM part.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on May 30, 2021, 07:23:47 AM
Measure and decide. If the bushing is worn that bad the crank is likely slipped. I would just toss the plate and get a new one, OEM part.
Thanks, I hope that's not the case.
Runout around .0018.... happy with that, but I'm not sure that's the whole story.
Anything else I need to check?
Thanks
I'd be putting studs in those 2 cam-plate mounting holes that have the dowel locators :SM:
:agree: :up:
Quote from: FSG on May 30, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
I'd be putting studs in those 2 cam-plate mounting holes that have the dowel locators :SM:
Sorry, you've lost me. :scratch:
Here is what FSG is speaking of.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,91840.msg1059059.html#msg1059059
Quote from: Ohio HD on May 30, 2021, 08:13:23 PM
Here is what FSG is speaking of.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,91840.msg1059059.html#msg1059059
Thanks for the link Ohio, got it now 👍
Quote from: Adam76 on May 30, 2021, 07:30:13 PM
Runout around .0018.... happy with that, but I'm not sure that's the whole story.
Anything else I need to check?
Thanks
I would clean up the pinion shaft and probably use a new cam plate and be done with it as the run out is good.
Quote from: Scotty on May 30, 2021, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on May 30, 2021, 07:30:13 PM
Runout around .0018.... happy with that, but I'm not sure that's the whole story.
Anything else I need to check?
Thanks
I would clean up the pinion shaft and probably use a new cam plate and be done with it as the run out is good.
Thanks Scotty. When you say clean up, you mean polish the wear marks?
Why the need for a new cam plate?
Quote from: Adam76 on May 30, 2021, 08:31:50 PM
Thanks Scotty. When you say clean up, you mean polish the wear marks?
Why the need for a new cam plate?
Yes just polish the wear marks and make it smooth.
As for cam plate that bushing looks like it has a bit of wear in the photos but if you think it feels alright and no roughness then run it but it just looks rough in the photo.
Quote from: Scotty on May 30, 2021, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on May 30, 2021, 08:31:50 PM
Thanks Scotty. When you say clean up, you mean polish the wear marks?
Why the need for a new cam plate?
Yes just polish the wear marks and make it smooth.
As for cam plate that bushing looks like it has a bit of wear in the photos but if you think it feels alright and no roughness then run it but it just looks rough in the photo.
Ok thanks. 👍
It feels smooth, so I might just run it a is?
Different angle and photo looks different...............Being there in person makes all the difference.
Quote from: Scotty on May 30, 2021, 11:27:34 PM
Different angle and photo looks different...............Being there in person makes all the difference.
Yeah I know. Big difference.
That's why I try and take 2 or 3 pics. But it's not the same 😬
I'd pull the bypass out of the camplate to ensure no crud and perhaps polish it ..
what do the camchain tensioner shoes look like
Quote from: FSG on May 31, 2021, 12:05:31 AM
I'd pull the bypass out of the camplate to ensure no crud and perhaps polish it ..
what do the camchain tensioner shoes look like
I was going to do that 👍 and I also have a fueling spring to put in to improve oil pressure.
The outer cam shoe was looking ok, but the inner definitely needed replacing - a small fragment actually chipped off it as I was unloading it...
I'm curious as to how many miles are on those tensioner shoes?
Jason
Quote from: Norton Commando on May 31, 2021, 05:15:24 AM
I'm curious as to how many miles are on those tensioner shoes?
Jason
Hey Jason,
I'm not the original owner and don't know the history of the bike - but it's remotely possible that these are the original shoes.... bike has done 46,000kms (what's that in miles? just under 30K miles?). The inner shoe was both worn and brittle, as it chipped easily as I pulled it away from the chain. That's my guess.
Quote from: Adam76 on May 31, 2021, 05:21:39 AM
Quote from: Norton Commando on May 31, 2021, 05:15:24 AM
I'm curious as to how many miles are on those tensioner shoes?
Jason
Hey Jason,
I'm not the original owner and don't know the history of the bike - but it's remotely possible that these are the original shoes.... bike has done 46,000kms (what's that in miles? just under 30K miles?). The inner shoe was both worn and brittle, as it chipped easily as I pulled it away from the chain. That's my guess.
Ok, thank you for the feedback.
Jason