Was wondering, how many folks would opt for the water cooled heads on their HD's if it were available as an option or aftermarket "add on"? No one seems to have a problem with an oil cooler so what is the real issue with water cooling an engine? Seems HD has spent tons of $$$ to make a hot/lean engine run "so so". At this stage of the game with all the EPA mandates, how long does one deal with the heat issues? If todays engines were indedd water cooled, don't think anyone could argue that it would be a much better running mill. 30 years ago it wasn't all that much of a problem running our engines in the heat but today our engines are larger, generate more power and create a lot more heat (imho).
Water cooling a HD V-twin is beginning to make real sense to me. Was wondering what other opinions there are on the subject.?
Just my $.02.
I wouldnt be interested in an add-on water cool option. I would be interested in a full water cooled Road Glide made by MoCo, however. I am not as particular about aesthetics of the motor as some here--I want performance over looks. So, give me one of Todds photoshopped Road Glides and I would be happy. lol
The VRod motor would be a good start, but would need to be modified for the baggers to give better torque on the low end, and more power through the midrange. Dont need a high revver, need a high torquer.
My .02
menace
I would buy one if they could Hide the Radiator :smiled:
In producing more power with bigger engines, heat is generated to do so and must be disapated. Air cooled Harleys use fins on the cylinders and heads, water cooled engines use a radiator. Bottom line........same heat just used up another way. I say to all those whiney Harley riders that complain that "my motor gets too hot" go buy yourself some insulated britches or ride in your air conditioned cage.
:dgust:
For me, the advantages of water cooling over air are pretty clear. All of my bikes so far have been air cooled and I have used quite a few free air and fan air vehicles and industrial equipment so I can talk as good as the next person from both sides of the fence.
I wouldn't be keen on the idea of a top end add on water cooled kit as I would be for an all out water cooled engine. HD and everyone that rides them is going to have to suck it up sooner or later and give up a little tradition for better engineering.
OH Man, do you go in the shed for that kind of commet?
tink
It's the "NOSTALGIA" factor that makes Harley's what they are. More like riding an old antique that makes them fun. Take that away and Harley will just become another "Metric" motorcycle. As for me I will stick with the "OLD" technology as probably most HTT members would too.
Here's the problem as I see it, with regards to asthetics at least. We loder guys who are tried and trued traditionalists and grew up with the advent of H-D, Indian, Norton, Triumph and on and on in the air cooled spectrum. We are unfortunately a dying breed on a daily basis and now the new younger generation is moving in. They want faster bikes. They want cool looking bikes and they want and they want and they want. Well a lot of these younger folks are going to school and learning newer and better technology and turning it into a reality hence we have the V-Rod. However how many of you that didn't start out on a Harley or pick your poison rode a water cooled bike as a starter due to economics, etc? I know I couldn't afford a Harley as a first bike so I rode what I could afford and that was an old very well abused Gold Wing that I traded a .22 pistol for kowing it needed a charging system and clutches. What the heck? It got me where I wanted to go, after I fixed it, and did it quite reliably for a season until I got on my feet and was able to afford a " Real Bike ". LOL
I didn't have a problem with it then and I don't think I would have a problem with it now. I get all kinds of bikes come through my shop and it amazes me at some of the technology and each day is a learning process with new bikes coming through daily. I work on all brands and learn more and more all the time. Some of those liquid cooled bikes that everyone is so afraid of work well, run like a bat out of hell and do it very well and reliably. Isn't that what we all want, relaibilty? Yes I know we want the "Old School" look and feel but I think Harley has been at it long enough and they have the technology to still give us all the asthetics that we so crave. It's only a matter of time and quite frankly I truly expected to see the first watercooled baggers as of this year. Ride 'em like you stole 'em and if you aren't happy with what is to come then don't see what you have. Just my .02, Spidey.
If it sounded like a Harley and pulled like a Harley and shook like a Harley and the radiator wasn't the main feature of the bike, then sure water cooled would be fine by me.
Doesn't matter much to me. At my age there will be plenty of air cooled H-D's around for my riding lifetime. Never planned on purchasing a brand new one. Wouldn't mind having a look at one though if they ever do.
Air-Cooled will be with us for a long while. The technology is there to continue making them meet EPA. Next step is the direct injection heads. An OHC might be another step, but that also steps on tradition of the push rods. If they go water cooled, then it should be for a big touring bike, (like the Tour Glide) - but go all out - make it a watercooled engine (not heads) and maybe go with a V4 with plenty of torque and HP. I like the idea of HD having different models with different motors. That follows along the Vrod marketing idea. Time will tell. The FLTRU was Carb approved with a 96 motor, maybe they are still working on the Carb approval for a watercooled V4.
On the subject of HOT, the Goldwing is watercooled, and it is HOT. All the plastic is there to help keep the heat off the rider. They tried to expose that powerful 6 cyl motor and chrome it all up for show with the Valkyre. Too HOT - the riders were cooking. The radiator only works if you pull air thru it and that hot air lands on the rider. If you want to see the motor, then it needs to be aircooled. Ever sat in traffic on a Goldwing with the electric fans pushing hot air on you. These Harleys are cool compared to that.
I believe Liquid cooling to be in the not so distant future of H/D. Maybe they won't have to make the bikes look like some sort of farm equipment with a big radiator if then can come up with a coolant that will dissipate the heat better.
Some progress is good and some we'll fight to the end like a carb. Me personally I'm just glad they came out with the electric starter. :hyst:
I agree with a2wheeler. Heat!! I rode a Valkyrie for a couple of years and, at times, the heat coming through the radiator combined with the heat from the engine was almost intolerable. It was literally like a blast furnace. Besides, all water cooled bikes have a huge, very ugly, radiator sticking out front. If you thought Harley's are tuned lean now, just wait until a water cooled version is released.
H-D has been savvy to liquid cooling since the 80's. The old NOVA project. They could do it in a minute if they really wanted to. Ohyea, I almost forgot, that other thing, V-Rod. :emsad:
AP
Quote from: RK101 on July 27, 2009, 07:12:41 AM
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Some progress is good and some we'll fight to the end like a carb. Me personally I'm just glad they came out with the electric starter. :hyst:
Electric start is way over rated. :hyst:
It took me a long time to stop reaching down for the kickstarter pedal after I turned the key on. :bf:
FWIW, I do like the looks of the VROD, and have considered buying one and get rid of my RG. But, the position doesnt look comfortable for the long haul, and bags are a little more limited than my bagger. I know there is an aftermarket fairing that is nearly identical to teh RG, I saw one a few years back in person. It also had big bags on it.
Still riding position didnt look good, and the powerband isnt what I want on that bike. Otherwise, work out those little things and I will buy it from the factory, no qualms. I suppose you can take a Revo motor and make it work, but would take more work than I want to put into one. Heck, I am still procrastinating getting my TC96 to where I want it....guess I am just lazy. lol
menace
If they built a FXRT style bike with the V-Rod motor and a fixed fairing, I bet that would get some attention.
I think we'll continue to see air-cooled motors well into the future. They have a lot of tricks up their sleeves, and they're developing and testing them for the next round of EPA silliness.
BnEUC
I'd pass on an add on deal, maybe a factory H2O head will come along , but a lot of air cooled bikes run just fine.
"Water cooling a HD V-twin is beginning to make real sense to me." .... Absolutely NO OFFENSE meant, but given enough time, Polyester and Depends are gonna start making sense to ya.
If ya need a water cooled ride, there are a LOT to choose from, if Harley wants to join the water cooled crowd, let 'em, just leave a few Harley-esque Air Cooled Rides for us 'Old Timers' to choose from.
my 2 cents (1.84 cents factoring in the exchange rate)
I think Harley needs to come out with an air cooled version of the VRod.
They would have a real winner there!
:hyst:
Don't they run oil cooled heads on a performance twin, Sportster. How much could additional cooling and noise reduction could be achieved with oil cooled heads. Maybe better functioning oil cooler type set up? A water cooled HD maybe, but try to get my 02 RKC from my cold dead fingers...
I talked to a mil plant worked , he said they had proto type wet heads coming down the the line.then they just disappeared. so they have them it's just when they'll be on the dealer floor.
Better watch what you wish(?) for, the day HD goes radiator, nothin but the sticker on the tank will be a true Harley. They'll be nothing more than nice paint and chrome, like Indian and the rest of the generic looking metric crowd. So 100+ yrs of individuality and uniquness goes out the window for 10 more HP and a quieter motor??? Water cooled motors make heat too, so don't think that's going away. Count me out, no radiators in my grave, just me and an air cooled 45 degree V-Twin.