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Technical Forums => Twin Cam => Topic started by: donk_316 on February 17, 2009, 05:20:46 AM

Title: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: donk_316 on February 17, 2009, 05:20:46 AM
First post!
I searched high and low for my own answers and now I would like some input.

I have a set of 2007 110" SE Heads. Excellent shape take offs.
I have a set of spare jugs that I would like to punch out to run 103"
According to the SE catalog this can be done with the correct pistons of course due to the CC shape of these heads.
I know these heads have "massive" valves and "large" ports BUT realistically, would this be a good street motor?
For a daily driver not a bar hopper?
Should the heads be worked over?
Still cool to run the Andrews 54 or Woods 6?

Or is this just a dumb idea? Any pointers would be cool.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Admiral Akbar on February 17, 2009, 07:17:26 AM
While these heads have a flat area for quench and appear to work with flattops (9to1) or domes (10.5 to 1), you probably hear the age old argument that the ports are too big for low end (there may be some validity here..  :wink:)..

So in the mean time...  :pop:

Max
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: ederdelyi on February 17, 2009, 07:30:03 AM
Is that buttered or plain? I'll take the popcorn, the "others" can have the thread. :>)
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Don D on February 17, 2009, 07:33:50 AM
One thing comes to mind
Physical dimensions, real estate issues.
The valves are large and the intended bore circumference at the outer area goes nearly to the 4" bore edge. I would not want the pocket to be there as it is dead air space when heads intended for a 4" bore were used at 3.875. There could also be clearance issues, would have to trial fit.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Scramjet on February 17, 2009, 07:57:33 AM
Possibly bore to 3.937" and trial fit?

B
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: ViennaHog on February 17, 2009, 08:03:25 AM
Bore the cylinder to 3.93 something bore to get to a 107" JP makes matching pistons AFAIK. Should take care of the valve to cylinder clearance problem.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Don D on February 17, 2009, 08:07:54 AM
Reminiscent of a stock 427 Chevy with square port heads and standard bore. The cylinders were eyebrowed.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: donk_316 on February 17, 2009, 06:32:11 PM
Hey right on. Thanks for the cool answers. Was expecting some smart asses but this is great!

with the 107" 3.936 bore Axtell cylinders or even overbored stockers I "should" physically be ok.



Even if it can be made to physically made to "fit"...The valve size doesnt bother me, actually I prefer the largest valve i can physically fit, its the larger ports that concern me... Can they be reworked for decent street duty?
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Admiral Akbar on February 17, 2009, 06:54:04 PM
There is a guy way smarter than most of us..Mike Roland. (not to imply that everyone here is a dummy..  :embarrassed:)   Mike Roland that says flow is more important than all velocity due to the configuration of the motor.. So anyway if you accept what he says the heads should be OK..

Going to a 107 bore with axtels, I would tell the guys which heads you plan to run and see if they can set up the valve pockets to clear thoses valves, especially the intake. Still, I'd check the clearance myself..

Max
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Don D on February 17, 2009, 09:21:17 PM
They are not bad heads and have potential. Minor rework picks up the flow easily. I had a set here a few weeks ago that went 300cfm on the intake.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: GoFast..... on February 17, 2009, 09:35:24 PM
I like the 107 with those heads. Proper compression is a must and a adjustable muffler system would help make sure the tq is where you want it
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Hillside Motorcycle on February 18, 2009, 03:52:59 AM
Never have done that combo, but as Don said, they can be worked over to get things really going. We have seen that here as well.
103" with 110 heads?
I've gotta' believe that they could be a home run in more than a couple builds that come to mind.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: TweekmyTwin on February 18, 2009, 06:55:39 PM
I have the same set-up with a 54h cam... clayed the piston to valve but did not check the valve to clyinder.. I missed completely about the smaller barrel. How could I check, if it clears, will they hit once they warm up.  :bf: forgot all about putting a nickel in a pennie slot. darn.
Jim
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: donk_316 on February 20, 2009, 04:30:34 AM
Okay so what pistons did you end up using?
Cant see this being an off the shelf piston, probably goin to have to be a custom....
For the heads i guess it would basically come down to getting the 110 head ports cleaned up, probably radius on the short side and a proper 5 angle valve job.
Why would the HD SE catalog not mention a miss match between the 103 and 110 heads if in its compression cross matrix it shows a bump in compression and thats it? With the correct 103 Hi compression pistons for that combustion chamber ofcourse
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: rigidthumper on February 20, 2009, 05:42:21 AM
I "think" ( I know, that's dangerous) the 110+ heads come in the new HD Stage4 kits. 103" 10.5cr pistons, cyls, 110+ heads, SEST, 58MM TBW throttle body, and perfect fit pushrods for $2495. HD even released new SEST maps for the Stage 3 & 4 kits with 2-1 pipes. I used one of those kits with a Bub7 2-1, HD heavy breather, and cometic .030 HG. 104TQ 114 HP in an 08 FLHR.
HTH
Robin
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Don D on February 20, 2009, 05:47:43 AM
HD Stage IV kit is a 103" with 110" MVA heads. Valve reliefs are already corrected for this combination so apparently the stock CVO heads will work. Lot more to the stock CVO heads than just a Blueprint if higher power is desired. With a Woods 6 or an Andrews 54 and a 103" motor it is a non-issue, IMO a bit of a waste of effort and parts mismatch, the stock heads with just minor work will work better, higher torque under the curve.

Robin
I work with dealers and have to develop kits that work better within the SE parts list and IMO this stage IV kit is very bulky, expensive and a lot of gear, without an associated ROI. Actually picking and choosing from the SE catalog can yield better results with some minor head rework many times with the stock heads, however I realize this is not the typical SOP at dealershps. They typically follow the book kits.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: rigidthumper on February 20, 2009, 07:14:35 AM
The kit I  referred to is kit part number is 27517-08, which uses 110+ heads and sells for $2398.95
Robin
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Don D on February 20, 2009, 08:45:05 AM
That isn't a bad price for all that gear but changes to the kit such as using the 900 dollar CVO heads and the SE251 instead can yield a higher torque curve and no hit on hp.
Here is a dyno with just a 103" kit and stock untouched heads. With a bagger it is nice to see the TQ hit 100 at a lower rpm.
http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=697.0
More for less money, seems to be the theme today and rightfully so.

I hope this is not taken as a bash the results are respectable and the price for all that gear not bad,
I also see that a custom tune was used so the SE download would not likely give the same result.
Just mentioning this for the purpose of discussion, not a SE parts basher, and open minded. I have worked at a dealer, so know the gig.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: TweekmyTwin on February 20, 2009, 09:53:19 AM
so is it safe to the say the valve to cyln. should work? The build is a 103 w/110 heads and a cometic .030 head gasket. The cams are the 54's ..... what would be my compression ratio with those 93 cc heads. just wondering
Jim
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Admiral Akbar on February 20, 2009, 12:24:24 PM
As a 103 you cr would be about 9.4 to 1.. 0 deck, 0.030 HG.. Probably good teritory for a 21.. With a 54 I'd try and boost the CR to 9.8 - 10. Either cut the dome on some pistons or mill the heads 35/40 thou.. You need about 5 more CCs.  Max.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: donk_316 on February 20, 2009, 06:46:15 PM
I think 22137-08 is the right part number for the SE forged Pistons for a 103" with 110" heads. these yield 10.5-1 compression ratio on the 110+ heads which it seems has the same size and shape combustion chamber as the CVO 110 head.

SCREAMIN’ EAGLE PRO TWIN CAM FORGED PISTONS FOR
ACR PERFORMANCE OR 110+ CYLINDER HEADS â€" 3-7/8"*
Made from high strength forged aluminum, these 3-7/8" big
bore pistons are designed to match the combustion chamber
of the Screamin’ Eagle Pro 110+ and ACR Performance
Cylinder Head. The resulting compression ratio of 10.5:1
provides maximum power from this combination. Complete
kit includes pistons, rings, wrist pins and clips.
Fits ’07-later Twin Cam models equipped with 3-7/8" bore
cylinders, and Screamin’ Eagle 110+ or ACR Performance
Cylinder Heads
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Don D on February 20, 2009, 10:50:07 PM
The heads CC about 94-95. Cut can only be minimal or mods are needed to retain the function of the ACR valves which IME are always loose in the heads and need tightening.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: pineknot on December 27, 2013, 04:10:25 PM
Any update on this build? i know its been awhile? i had a similar build with 110+ heads on a 103, started with 260 cam and went back to 259e, still having trouble with trhe power though, 106hp and 98tq
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: av ultra on December 27, 2013, 04:37:24 PM
I have a set of se110 heads I am going to put on my 107 some day, I read somewhere that on these heads every .010 roughly equal 1.6 cc can anybody confirm this?
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: remington007 on December 27, 2013, 05:59:49 PM
I did this on my FL this spring. Stock 110 SE heads on a 103 TC24D cams. I rode this set up all summer, it runs awesome! 114 HP 116 TQ. 
Its posted here in the dyno section about 5 pages back. "09 FLHTC 110 heads on a 103 TC24D cams" (I dont know how to post the link) The build specs are there too.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: 1FSTRK on December 27, 2013, 07:26:22 PM

Here you are remington007

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,60098.msg642076.html#msg642076 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,60098.msg642076.html#msg642076)
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: Admiral Akbar on December 27, 2013, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: remington007 on December 27, 2013, 05:59:49 PM
I did this on my FL this spring. Stock 110 SE heads on a 103 TC24D cams. I rode this set up all summer, it runs awesome! 114 HP 116 TQ. 
Its posted here in the dyno section about 5 pages back. "09 FLHTC 110 heads on a 103 TC24D cams" (I dont know how to post the link) The build specs are there too.

:up:

Perfect example of using less cams on a set of heads that flow good..  Other cams like the TW555, 54 even the 57 depending on the pipe and final CR.

Max
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: sfmichael on December 30, 2013, 11:10:09 AM
Quote from: 1FSTRK on December 27, 2013, 07:26:22 PM

Here you are remington007

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,60098.msg642076.html#msg642076 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,60098.msg642076.html#msg642076)

really nice numbers for a mild and torquey 103/104"  :up: :up:
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: gordonr on December 30, 2013, 01:01:06 PM
This past summer a buddy put on a set of 110 heads (350.00) on his 95" Super Glide. He used the proper SE pistons. I checked deck and clayed the piston for him at his garage. His cam choice was the crane 304, 45mm mik carb, K&N a/c and a thunder header. Never saw the sheet but he claimed 105tq 110hp @ 6000 and I dont know the correction. He's says he happy with it.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: TorQuePimp on December 30, 2013, 01:31:49 PM
  To quote Reagan.....Ok Nancy Reagan....Just say no
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: gordonr on December 30, 2013, 04:56:25 PM
I called my buddy Tom and had him text a pic of his dyno sheet. I posted it in the "dyno section" It wasn't as he explained it to me but it looks like there is some being left on the table. A local dealer tuned it and it doesn't look like they did him any favors.
Title: Re: Ok, here we go... 110" SE Heads on a 103"?
Post by: xzo124 on December 30, 2013, 06:37:45 PM
Quote from: donk_316 on February 20, 2009, 04:30:34 AM
Okay so what pistons did you end up using?
Cant see this being an off the shelf piston, probably goin to have to be a custom....
For the heads i guess it would basically come down to getting the 110 head ports cleaned up, probably radius on the short side and a proper 5 angle valve job.
Why would the HD SE catalog not mention a miss match between the 103 and 110 heads if in its compression cross matrix it shows a bump in compression and thats it? With the correct 103 Hi compression pistons for that combustion chamber ofcourse
T-Man offers a +7cc or +19 cc in the 3.397 on the shelf ....xzo