Friend has a 2009 road king with a mild 103" build, called today and said he did a holeshot last night and the bike quit moving. He said he didn't hear any loud noises from the primary when it happened. Tranny goes into gear but when you let out the clutch the bike doesn't move. Bike starts and runs fine, im thinking clutch hub failure, what do you guys think ? Any opinions are greatly appreciated
Get the rear wheel off the ground, remove the derby cover.
Put the bike in gear and rotate the rear tire, see what is going on in the primary, is the clutch shell and hub turning?
NO Mention of NOISE coming from any area???????? Now when running in a gear...
Has he checked the BELT? next is the Tranny Belt-drive-gear THEN the high $$$$$$$$ stuff... The tranny.?.?.. Other side could be the Double chain (unlikely)
Clutch to shaft splines Stripped off out of clutch basket.... The Compensator .... Stripped off the engine shaft and Probably Bent engine crank end to boot...
Really LOTS of fun to abuse these bikes..... :doh: :potstir: :slap: Makes me want to :sick:
BAD...
signed....BUBBIE
Belt.
:potstir:
The most obvious would certainly be the belt.
Belt is not broke as that was also the first thing I asked him . He is gonna trailer the bike to me tomorrow and I will get it on the lift and check it out. He thought he smoked the clutch out of it but I doubt thats the problem, bike would move a little even if the clutch pack was smoked.
My friend had a bike in last week with a similar problem, turned out to be the trannie pully had stripped splines.
Thanks FSG, will check tranny pulley for stripped splines. Talked to him a little bit ago and he stated that the bike will move a little bit when in gear and clutch released. Im thinking either tranny pulley like you stated or cracked clutch basket. What has me thinking that it's the basket is it happened when he was doing a holeshot out of his driveway but the pulley could of been loose and gave up the ghost as well when he dumped the clutch. Is there any way of checking the tranny pulley without tearing it down to the inner primary ? Also do the 2009 road kings come from the factory with the SE compensator ? Thanks for all your suggestions
If the tranny pulley is bad I should be able to put the bike in 1st gear without it running and if I can push the bike and it rolls then I know the splines are gone off the pulley correct ?
Quote from: 2006FXDCI on July 28, 2013, 01:28:12 AM
If the tranny pulley is bad I should be able to put the bike in 1st gear without it running and if I can push the bike and it rolls then I know the splines are gone off the pulley correct ?
It could be any number of things, broken mainshaft,broken clutch shell, failed splines on mainshaft, output shaft, clutch hub...
You can guess until the cows come home, but the only way you will know is tear the drivetrain down and find the damage.
"Also do the 2009 road kings come from the factory with the SE compensator ? "
No...........I have an '09 SE Ultra CVO and had the stock comp replaced by the new SE comp.
Quote from: 2006FXDCI on July 28, 2013, 01:28:12 AM
If the tranny pulley is bad I should be able to put the bike in 1st gear without it running and if I can push the bike and it rolls then I know the splines are gone off the pulley correct ?
I would think putting it in gear clutch out running motor,
Front Brake ON, and you should Hear the belt pulley Rattle and make noise..IF no noise there, it is probably in the main shaft yranny area...
signed....BUBBIE
Friend brought his bike over last night, first thing I did was squeeze the clutch lever and it felt very tight so pulled the derby cover and slacked the clutch cable adjustment. I loosened the lock nut on the clutch adjustment set screw which was ungodly tight and then noticed as I was backing out the clutch adjustment screw that the pressure plate was relaxing. It took 3 full turns on the clutch adjustment screw to get it to zero lash then i backed it out 3/4 turn more. Readjusted the clutch cable to 1/8" slack and started the bike. Put in 1st gear and let out the clutch and all is fine. I'm gonna put a new set of frictions and steels in the clutch per his request and check the throw out bearing. My question is how the heck did the clutch pack adjuster screw get so tight from him just doing a burnout as this is when the problem arose. He stated all was fine with the bike until then. Going to pull the outer primary tonight and check the clutch shell as well. Any opinions on this would be appreciated as I'm stumped as to what caused the clutch adjustment to get so far out of whack.
If the splines strip on the hub, when placing a heavy load driving on the drive train, the clutch hub nut could tighten. The clutch would move towards the right side of the bike and the clutch pushrod would unload the clutch.. You need to inspect the inner hub carefully.. Splines may be stripped... The washer that the clutch nut bottom against may be damaged.. Also the bearing that holds the mainshaft may have move due to the heavy loads on the helical gears.. (Don't you just luv them POS) Pull the right side and inspect the bearing in the trapdoor.. Might need a new trap door.
Max
:sad:
Something HAD to move when the rear Tyre didn't.... I'm sure you will see More... Good of you to share the find.
I'd bet the Whole Clutch moved OUTward from a twisted shaft at the splines. That would tighten the whole clutch inners,,, Would it not????
I Need to know as I ride an 09 but No popping the clutch for me... :hyst:
Thanks
signed....BUBBIE
Had the clutch ever been properly adjusted before, like since new ? I always do it on customers bikes but I've had two dealer "techs" tell me it doesn't need doing.
He stated clutch was adjusted properly prior to the burnout but I'm not so sure he knows what proper is :emoGroan: Hoping to get a chance tonight to remove the outer primary and clutch basket to inspect everything on that side. If the mainshaft moved it should show as the inner primary bearing race will be inward ( toward the clutch ) more than usual correct ?
It will be towards the pulley.. 3 turns to loosen should be about 0.15 inches. the adjuster is 7/16 NF..
Max
Got the primary apart tonight and will post some pics. Friction material caked on everything and the steels were the color of a blued gun barrel. Clutch basket is fine with no cracks and the splines are in great shape. Hub bearing feels good and doesn't make any sounds when spinning it. Primary chain adjuster mounting bolts were backed out about 1/8" or so and were bent from getting beat on. Friction discs mic at .147 . Will pull the exhaust and right side tranny cover hopefully tomorrow and check out the door bearings and ball and ramp mech. Bruce, is there any way to measure to see if the mainshaft moved without taking it apart ? Mainshaft turns freely and I can't feel any binding or grinding when I turn it. Sorry for the poor resolution on the pics, they are taken with my ancient cell phone. BTW the steel on the right is mine with over 20,000 miles on it with a 107" motor, the one on the left is out of my friends bike with only 18,00 on it.
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
You know.. Looking at the clutch, I would be surprised if the only thing he did was smoke it.. Look at the pressure plate and inner part of the hub where the frictions rest.. Pull the damper spring and ring.. check the inner hub flat for wear.. Outer pressure plate also. Stock friction plates that have been run should be about 0.151 or bigger.. 0.147 on all the plates could means that he wore about 40 thou off the plates doing burnouts.. Did you compare the steels to see how much they lost?
On the right side when you look just look at the condition of the snap ring and mainshaft bearing.. It should be obvious.. You may not find anything as the primary bearing race doesn't look moved in any.. It's real hard to say tho since the tensioner only gets beat up on heavy deceleration forces.. I believe decel is what will push the bearing towards the right side..
Bruce
Bruce, the damper spring and seat looked good and were not blue like the rest of the steels, clutch hub flat looked good as well. I did not mic the steels but will do it tonight, pressure plate is showing slight wear in the contact area it's a SE spring. I ordered him a new SE clutch kit ( frictions and steels ) and I have a good SE pressure plate in hand. I have a question for you and maybe I'm way off base here as I'm no pro at this but do you think that when he was doing the burnout and never left the clutch handle fully out with all the material gone from the friction plates that the ball and ramp mech. might of dropped down and stuck there causing the pressure I felt on the clutch pack when I had to turn the adjuster out 3 turns to get to zero lash ? I'm going to pull the tranny side door tonight and check out the bearings, snap rings and throw out bearing and make sure the ball and ramp mech. is in the home position. Thanks for all your help Bruce
I think if you find anything it will be on the right side. Either the clutch mechanism or the trap door area. Only thing odd is with the hole shot load the shaft should have shifted to the left and there should be extra slop in the clutch. Shifting to the right on a hard decel and staying there would tighten the adjustment which is what you have. Bearing shift in the trap as one possible cause. Wonder if this happened just before the hole shot attempt? Guess you will find out.
Ron
:up:
Good Educational Read.
I'll have to COMPLEMENT you Guys for giving GOOD answers here...
I try to Peck Away and guess in thought.... Most of you sound like you've either "Been Down That Road Before" OR approach it from others having the Problem and fixing it Here on the forum...
Take this as a COMPLEMENT,,,, You know who you are... Don't you? :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: 2006FXDCI on July 30, 2013, 06:15:24 AM
Bruce, the damper spring and seat looked good and were not blue like the rest of the steels, clutch hub flat looked good as well. I did not mic the steels but will do it tonight, pressure plate is showing slight wear in the contact area it's a SE spring. I ordered him a new SE clutch kit ( frictions and steels ) and I have a good SE pressure plate in hand. I have a question for you and maybe I'm way off base here as I'm no pro at this but do you think that when he was doing the burnout and never left the clutch handle fully out with all the material gone from the friction plates that the ball and ramp mech. might of dropped down and stuck there causing the pressure I felt on the clutch pack when I had to turn the adjuster out 3 turns to get to zero lash ? I'm going to pull the tranny side door tonight and check out the bearings, snap rings and throw out bearing and make sure the ball and ramp mech. is in the home position. Thanks for all your help Bruce
I'm no pro either (was 30 years ago).. I'm don't think that the balls could pop out of position since placing you hand on the lever only tightens the balls and keeps them from moving.. Maybe the balls were able to move some from the overheating of the clutch allow the rod to unload a bunch..After all it got real hot.. That's just a guess.. Let us know what you find.
Max
Removed tranny side door last night, throw out bearing looks good and both mainshaft and countershaft bearings were tight against the snap rings in the door. Mainshaft has no axial play that can be felt and turns smoothly. I took a few pics and will try to post them tonight but they are a bit blurry. I think my friend got very lucky as the only " Smoking gun " I can find is a completely destroyed clutch pack. If I remember correctly the steels mic at .067 and are completely blue and warped. The only thing out of place I could find was the snap ring that holds the ball and ramp mech. was installed in the wrong position according to the service manual. I have a SE clutch pack coming on friday and will have it back together then and go for a spin to see how everything is working. I have a dumb question for you guys, why does the throw out bearing shaft and the clutch adjuster screw shaft have a flat machined down the length of each shaft ?
Don't know why....
BUT I think he did MORE than One out the driveway..... Don't you??? :fish:
The truth and nothing but the Truth.... Is needed :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
No doubt about it Bubbie ! He has been warned to ride it normally or suffer the consequences :angry:
Does anyone know why there is a flat machined down the length of the throw out bearing shaft and also the clutch adjuster screw shaft ? I don't know why they are needed as they don't seem to be used to index one part to another. Thanks for any replies
Maybe to help vent the primary?
Or to allow oil to get in or out of an area. Just an educated guess.
Quote from: Geezer_Glider on July 31, 2013, 11:43:21 AM
Maybe to help vent the primary?
:agree:
Heard it on the forum OR the internet... :scratch:
Might even been Max.... :nix:
signed....BUBBIE
New Screamin eagle frictions and steels showed up yesterday. Installed those and bolted up the primary. Adjusted clutch cable to 1/8" slack and took the RK for a ride. Clutch engages great and all seems well, put about 20 miles on it. My friend is happy as he avoided a costly tranny repair. Thanks everyone for their replies and help. Josh