I see lots of stock Twin Cams happily running down the road.
Is it worth the effort to vent the crankcase elsewhere, besides back into the air filter/throttle body?
Is the oily filter anything to genuinely be concerned about, or is it just an inconvenience?
Thanks
Its not so much the smag in the filter as it is the stuff that gets past the filter. When I took my induction module off this winter the inside looked like the inside of the smokehouse, lots of carbon on the pistons too. When you have a catch can on there you get a good look at the crud you have been feeding the motor. I have not had to clean the IAC since installing the can either.
Generated
Once you ditch the PCV going in the AC and get rid of the oily K&N you get a nice and clean TB and slow the buildup in the cylinders. IMO its worth it.
Quote from: Soft 02 on June 05, 2014, 04:51:34 AM
Once you ditch the PCV going in the AC and get rid of the oily K&N you get a nice and clean TB and slow the buildup in the cylinders. IMO its worth it.
You get rid of the valves in the heads? :scratch: What are you calling PCV?
Max
The breathers are the positive crankcase ventilation and meant venting them to atmosphere. Not routing them to the intake.
On my 127, I vent the crankcase and vent the heads.
I still get some oil into the filter but not a lot.
Quote from: Soft 02 on June 05, 2014, 06:08:17 AM
The breathers are the positive crankcase ventilation and meant venting them to atmosphere. Not routing them to the intake.
OK just the re-route...
Max
Got mine out of the air cleaner the day after my warranty expired. No engine like that kind of oil run in thru the intake. Bob
Intakes suck, if you pull and reroute you might not even get oily hose ends.
cling
Anyone have any opinions about the head vents. Are the new stamped steel top vents really better than the older aluminum one's ?
Quote from: pigfixer on June 05, 2014, 07:01:09 AM
Anyone have any opinions about the head vents. Are the new stamped steel top vents really better than the older aluminum one's ?
Yes they are a bit better. They seem to carry less oil through them while venting.
Ron
Thanks Ron, anyone else have an opinion on this ?
When people say "venting to the ground/atmosphere", where exactly are they venting to?
Does the oil/mist have the potential to spray elsewhere on your bike, possibly the rear tire?
Thanks
Quote from: DrSpencer on June 05, 2014, 08:13:21 AM
When people say "venting to the ground/atmosphere", where exactly are they venting to?
Does the oil/mist have the potential to spray elsewhere on your bike, possible the rear tire?
Thanks
The one I use the mounting bolts are the breathers. Rarely ever get anything more than a light residue. Ive drilled the rocker supports and use the stamped steel valve assy. Seems to be working well.
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/gcgyb/motorcycle%20stuff/Repairs/BlackBobberACSystemTCc.jpg) (http://s1220.photobucket.com/user/gcgyb/media/motorcycle%20stuff/Repairs/BlackBobberACSystemTCc.jpg.html)
I don't vent mine to atmosphere, but don't fill oil to full mark either. But just a 96" with cams. I don't notice a lot in the filter when I take it off.
If I had more money in the engine? :nix:
I have a 2011 103" Street Glide w/255's & updated breathers.
I run a 1/2 qt. low and still get a little dribble.
Thanks
Built my own adaptors from the original bolts and run it to the ground putting in a catch can this year. Drilled the rocker boxes and put the new vents in when I did the heads. Bob
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My solution...
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When you vent the crankcase to a small filter that hangs below the air cleaner, does the small filter fill up and drip (just like the air cleaner)?
Thanks
Quote from: DrSpencer on June 05, 2014, 11:03:12 AM
When you vent the crankcase to a small filter that hangs below the air cleaner, does the small filter fill up and drip (just like the air cleaner)?
Thanks
If it's an oil barfer from excessive blowby, yes. Good rings and little blowby they stay reasonably clean for a long time. Condensation tends to accumulate in them in cool weather though and they get wet.
Ron
I don't see how the level in the oil pan will make any difference as some posters responded.
Regardless of the level, the oil pump is still pumping the same quantity of oil into the rocker boxes.
In my opinion the problem is the tiny drain holes that are drilled into the rocker arm support plates below the umbrella valves that are supposed to let the excess oil drain back into the top of the rocker box and back down into the oil pan.
The stock holes are about the size of the hole in a sewing needle.
When I did my engine build over the winter I drilled the drain holes out to 1/8".
I haven't had even a trace of oil going into my breather, nor has the oil level got down at all.
Quote from: HDMG on June 05, 2014, 01:34:03 PM
I don't see how the level in the oil pan will make any difference as some posters responded.
Regardless of the level, the oil pump is still pumping the same quantity of oil into the rocker boxes.
In my opinion the problem is the tiny drain holes that are drilled into the rocker arm support plates below the umbrella valves that are supposed to let the excess oil drain back into the top of the rocker box and back down into the oil pan.
The stock holes are about the size of the hole in a sewing needle.
When I did my engine build over the winter I drilled the drain holes out to 1/8".
I haven't had even a trace of oil going into my breather, nor has the oil level got down at all.
Yes, opening up those holes does help.
Not everyone has a tight motor when doing the hole opening thing.
Some of the aftermarket heads do have larger openings than factory also.
I prefer the small filter being mounted below the air cleaner, where I can see it.
Are there any disadvantages to using this type of setup (offered by DK)?
[attachment removed after 60 days by system]
I used to get a few drips out of the air cleaner if I got on it or ran at 85 mph for a long time. No more problems now.
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/davejetski/642ffdf1a1396bb730979a484d04600d_zps21d45e69.jpg)
Something that never occurred to me; how can I externally vent when using a SE Stage I intake?
Thanks
I just cut the ears off the SE backing plate.Bought a support plate and a braided hose kit with a filter for about $60. Coff 06
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I've been trying to find a kit to vent mine to a catch can but nothing I find seems to work. I don't have the skill set or patience to make something that will look as good as what you guys do. I have what looks like the SE heavy breather but it different brand make for a mikuni carb.... Any know where there is an easy bolt on kit that would work?
I run mine right under my shocks (FLSTF)
Once in a great while I'll see a small spot under the bike.
I think she's just marking her territory.... :hyst:
Quote from: 05fatboy95 on June 05, 2014, 07:48:32 PM
I've been trying to find a kit to vent mine to a catch can but nothing I find seems to work. I don't have the skill set or patience to make something that will look as good as what you guys do. I have what looks like the SE heavy breather but it different brand make for a mikuni carb.... Any know where there is an easy bolt on kit that would work?
I bought this stuff from JP Cycle online. Coff 06
Any disadvantage to using a catch can (or small filter) as opposed to venting directly to the ground?
Thanks
Yeah, after some time, you gotta dump the can.
If your pumping a lot of oil, you got other issues.
A drop every now and then is nuthin compared to the oil leakin POS I see all over the road.
Not to mention the black diesel crap spewing out of every city bus, state truck, etc.
Quote from: Nowhereman on June 05, 2014, 11:19:52 PM
Yeah, after some time, you gotta dump the can.
If your pumping a lot of oil, you got other issues.
A drop every now and then is nuthin compared to the oil leakin POS I see all over the road.
Not to mention the black diesel crap spewing out of every city bus, state truck, etc.
Does the can actually allow the bike to 'vent', or is it a sealed container?
Thanks
I also vent mine directly to the ground. I drilled the cam support plate holes and I also drilled the breather bolts to enlarge the inner diameter.
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q33/x1rider/crankvent_zps2782ec57.jpg) (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/x1rider/media/crankvent_zps2782ec57.jpg.html)
That's a clean setup there for breathing.
snip: "... Does the can actually allow the bike to 'vent', or is it a sealed container?"
It MUST breathe - if it's a sealed container, all the vented crankcase pressure ends up building up back through the entire system and you end up with oil being forced out past all the engine seals :cry:
If your oil pump is properly aligned, and your umbrella valves are still good, you will not be blowing out anything other than air (and maybe a bit of condensation in the cold), so it doesn't really matter where you vent.
Those of you that vent to the ground are taking it for granted that something won't/can't happen to the motor that will oil the rear tire. IMO venting to a location that can oil the rear tire is a NO NO.
A local wizard here had a heavily oiled rear tire after the engine developed a problem which oiled the rear tire on a semi-aggressive ride. Problem was later blamed on a leaking base gasket. All I know is oiling the right side of the rear tire could cause a serious health risk, as in low siding in a right hander and possibly cross the center line to be fodder for an oncoming cage...quite possible in the situation I witnessed.
No one will consider venting to the ground much of a risk until you see an oiled rear tire first hand...put a catch can on it.
You can make one out of a variety of things, a little thought and ingenuity.
Tires don't rust and they certainly don't need to be oiled. Rick
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on June 06, 2014, 10:00:39 AM
Those of you that vent to the ground are taking it for granted that something won't/can't happen to the motor that will oil the rear tire. IMO venting to a location that can oil the rear tire is a NO NO.
A local wizard here had a heavily oiled rear tire after the engine developed a problem which oiled the rear tire on a semi-aggressive ride. Problem was later blamed on a leaking base gasket. All I know is oiling the right side of the rear tire could cause a serious health risk, as in low siding in a right hander and possibly cross the center line to be fodder for an oncoming cage...quite possible in the situation I witnessed.
No one will consider venting to the ground much of a risk until you see an oiled rear tire first hand...put a catch can on it.
You can make one out of a variety of things, a little thought and ingenuity.
Tires don't rust and they certainly don't need to be oiled. Rick
Amen to that :up:
I plugged the vents in the backing plate with JB Weld, then tapped and added brass barbs just below the banjo bolts. I run two hoses to a tee that fits into a small catch can with the hose protruding about 3/4" into the top. Then I have another hose that comes off the top and goes into the backing plate just inside of the air filter. That way, the oil drops into the can and I am only pulling the vapors into the air filter area. I will watch to make sure it doesn't pull any oil in with it. Since it produces very little oil, I just empty the catch can every few thousand miles. Now I just need to come up with a better catch can. My prototype is just a little plastic film canister..... Hey. It works.
Mike
I used the S&S air cleaner set up and rotate banjo's up to a T, then 3/8" hose down to the ground. You can't even see it on the Right side of the bike (although the donkey d*ck hanging below the frame is visible). On left side you see a black hose drop down behind the primary. On my '05 RG I ran it along the frame back bone and down to the back left corner of the frame.
I've always routed direct to the ground without a filter because filter gums up too fast, plus very easy to rip em off when curb hopping.
I get NO tell tale oil drops on the back of my dirty saddle bags or on the wheel. Once in a while in winter I'll find a white spooge drop below the hose about the size of a dime. But that's only after the bikes been sitting. I'm sure it's blowin a very light mist normally, but it's not showing up on the back end, so it's not a prob IMO.
I also run a full oil bag.
Another thought!? I found that on injected TC that the oil (ANY) enters the TB before the top temp sensor. This DOES cause a different reading after a while due to oil covering the thermo resister. Changes warm up but will show the correct temp as air temp WHEN COLD. Run a data log on one and YOU WILL see. Ask me how i know!!!!!! how can sensor be correct with oil covering it?? Venting to other place other then backing plate and TB would stop this. Also check out the inside of the TB after say 25k or so!!!
Templer
I vent to a catch can now. I use to vent to the ground...but I came to my senses. I won't take the chance of any oil getting to my rear tire. It's an accident I want to avoid.
Here is the mini Jaz catch can I use. I made this heavy breather...but you can see how the lines come off it.
And the final pic...this is about 1000 miles of the muck that has came out of my heads to the catch can.
Mini Jaz
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Heavy Breather
[attach=1]
my issue isn't a question about venting to the ground or a catch can...it's I don't want that acidic junk going into my t/body and possibly sitting on my pistons and cylinder walls and eating away at them.
It's nasty stuff!
The muck
[attachimg=3]
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ALSO say the OEM 58mm backing plate holes can get plugged with carbon or ??. What would happen when pressure builds up due to the plug or ? Venting other than to TB stops anything except dirty filter!! Ask me how i know!!!
Templer
I re-routed my head vents inside the air cleaner housing, away from TB, it has a hose running to a VERY absorbent pad, I have put over 1200 miles on it and the only oil anywhere is in the pad, not on filter, filter housing, nothing.
Oil goes to pad, moisture evaporates with engine heat...
One pad will last between services from what I am seeing, NO problemo.
Quote from: Durwood on June 06, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
I re-routed my head vents inside the air cleaner housing, away from TB, it has a hose running to a VERY absorbent pad, I have put over 1200 miles on it and the only oil anywhere is in the pad, not on filter, filter housing, nothing.
Oil goes to pad, moisture evaporates with engine heat...
One pad will last between services from what I am seeing, NO problemo.
stay out of your wife's purse Daren :hyst:
Quote from: No Cents on June 06, 2014, 02:28:48 PM
Quote from: Durwood on June 06, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
I re-routed my head vents inside the air cleaner housing, away from TB, it has a hose running to a VERY absorbent pad, I have put over 1200 miles on it and the only oil anywhere is in the pad, not on filter, filter housing, nothing.
Oil goes to pad, moisture evaporates with engine heat...
One pad will last between services from what I am seeing, NO problemo.
stay out of your wife's purse Daren :hyst:
:wink: :smileo:
Quote from: Durwood on June 06, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
I re-routed my head vents inside the air cleaner housing, away from TB, it has a hose running to a VERY absorbent pad, I have put over 1200 miles on it and the only oil anywhere is in the pad, not on filter, filter housing, nothing.
Oil goes to pad, moisture evaporates with engine heat...
One pad will last between services from what I am seeing, NO problemo.
Do you us the mini or maxi pads ?
Quote from: pigfixer on June 06, 2014, 03:41:19 PM
Quote from: Durwood on June 06, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
I re-routed my head vents inside the air cleaner housing, away from TB, it has a hose running to a VERY absorbent pad, I have put over 1200 miles on it and the only oil anywhere is in the pad, not on filter, filter housing, nothing.
Oil goes to pad, moisture evaporates with engine heat...
One pad will last between services from what I am seeing, NO problemo.
Do you us the mini or maxi pads ?
Now PF, you know these HD's are going to require Max protection.
QuoteI also vent mine directly to the ground. I drilled the cam support plate holes and I also drilled the breather bolts to enlarge the inner diameter.
cam or rocker ?
NoCents, how long to collect that 1/4" of oil in your muck bottle?
If that entire container was all Oil I'd agree it's gonna be a problem on the rear tire. Not that you aren't already spin cleaning your rear tire...
Quote from: DrSpencer on June 05, 2014, 04:30:03 PM
Something that never occurred to me; how can I externally vent when using a SE Stage I intake?
Thanks
see my foto above, basically the same process.
Quote from: rageglide on June 06, 2014, 04:07:59 PM
NoCents, how long to collect that 1/4" of oil in your muck bottle?
If that entire container was all Oil I'd agree it's gonna be a problem on the rear tire. Not that you aren't already spin cleaning your rear tire...
that's about 1000 miles worth in that water bottle.
Quote from: No Cents on June 06, 2014, 05:12:10 PM
Quote from: rageglide on June 06, 2014, 04:07:59 PM
NoCents, how long to collect that 1/4" of oil in your muck bottle?
If that entire container was all Oil I'd agree it's gonna be a problem on the rear tire. Not that you aren't already spin cleaning your rear tire...
that's about 1000 miles worth in that water bottle.
That's not bad if you ask me. Mostly "water". I'd guess I would collect same if I ran a catch can. But I'm definitely not seeing any evidence on the trailing surfaces, other than built up carbon and brake dust...
Would a -4 line for each head be too small?
I used 3/8" hose from each head.
The reason I ask is I can get a bunch of -4 Teflon hose and fittings, not sure if 1/4 inch would be enough to properly vent the engine.
Quote from: av ultra on June 07, 2014, 09:01:13 PM
The reason I ask is I can get a bunch of -4 Teflon hose and fittings, not sure if 1/4 inch would be enough to properly vent the engine.
The 14's breather hose is less than a 1/4", need to measure. -4 an should be adequate, IMO.
It's just pressure guys, your not pumping a viscous fluid. :rtfb:
3/8, 1/4 inch any will be fine coming from each head.
Quote from: av ultra on June 07, 2014, 09:01:13 PM
The reason I ask is I can get a bunch of -4 Teflon hose and fittings, not sure if 1/4 inch would be enough to properly vent the engine.
Well the vent holes are only 1/8 inch IF you drilled them out. I used 1/4 inch swagelok braided steel lines for mine. Thats what we had at work. Bob
I'm really thinking of venting into a catch tank myself. If anyone is interested you can go to Bobs 4 cycle Karting forum, they have a lot of vendors with small catch tanks for Go Karts that would fit nicely in tight areas.
Let me ask about something I've been thinking about for a while. For a visual take a look at the picture 88b has posted in reply #23.
Surfing the web one day I see a vent line kit offered by Feuling for 2002-06 Touring models that vents the cam chest. ( http://www.feulingparts.com/products/Oil%20Tank%20Breathers/Oil%20Tank%20Breather%20Kit/3080 (http://www.feulingparts.com/products/Oil%20Tank%20Breathers/Oil%20Tank%20Breather%20Kit/3080) ) Not sure if it's a benefit or not but that's not the discussion here.
My thought is to plumb something similar to what most people do when venting the heads to the atmosphere but tie it into the hose that runs from the cam chest to the oil filler spout. Take the end of the hose that we would usually run down under the frame that is just open and tee it into something that looks like the Feuling hose assembly, up at about the level of the bottom of the F/I or carb.. Mount the filter above the level of the head breathers so the vapors go out the filter and any liquid would drain back into the oil pan.
Any reason why this won't work?
Vent to the ground or a can 1st after you see what comes out you won't want that muck going into the oil tank or motor
:agree:
Obviously the white spooge comes from inside and is just oil and air whiped together. But. I'd rather not just return that water crud to the oil again, not that it can't be evaporated over time.
It's been my experience with TC 88's & 96's that oil only gets in the air filter if your overfilling, just a little overfill and it's puking out. I run Zipper's backing plate with a K&N filter that's full exposed to the elements and never have a problem, this may be different on high horsepower motors. I like a clean simple look, well as clean as a old guy ride a big ugly bagger can get.
Oil mist in the intake air lowers your fuels octane rating.
Quote from: Merc63 on June 08, 2014, 11:05:18 PM
Oil mist in the intake air lowers your fuels octane rating.
Not to mention pushing that chit back into yr motor is just plain wrong :sick:
Quote from: Merc63 on June 08, 2014, 11:05:18 PM
Oil mist in the intake air lowers your fuels octane rating.
That's what she said too.. :hyst:
I put this catch can on my Softail this year when I done the motor. The inside of the throttle body was covered in oil residue and I used to get the odd drip from the breather. Since I done the top end I only see water in the catch can with just a very slight film of oil stuck to the inside of the can. The blue filter has 4000 Km on it now and still looks like it does in the picture with no dust sticking to it, so I assume there is nothing leaving the can. I would recommend this mod to anyone sick of cleaning up the mess.
Gene
(http://images.takefiveaudio.com/images/cc.jpg)
(http://images.takefiveaudio.com/images/cc3.jpg)
Very nicely engineered and looks impressive too.
I'll stick with my hose under the frame.
Been running that way for years and years with no issues or slippin around.
Still, a nice engineering exercise.
:agree:
Plus I kinda like the sleeper look myself.
Quote from: Nowhereman on June 09, 2014, 09:22:29 PM
Very nicely engineered and looks impressive too.
I'll stick with my hose under the frame.
Been running that way for years and years with no issues or slippin around.
Still, a nice engineering exercise.
+1 and same for me like in the old days, just a hose Under the right frame tube toward the outside.
It only takes a few ounces of oil to look like a quart when its going down the side of your bike.
Quote from: BigTodd on June 12, 2014, 05:08:11 AM
It only takes a few ounces of oil to look like a quart when its going down the side of your bike.
If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle too.. :hyst:
Dude, if I had that much oil coming out of anywhere, that bike would be up on the rack gettin fixed. :emoGroan:
Set up on Mikuni Carb
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