HarleyTechTalk

Technical Forums => General => Topic started by: gryphon on October 18, 2014, 02:04:39 PM

Title: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: gryphon on October 18, 2014, 02:04:39 PM
Hard to elaborate on the title. I was asked that question but had a hard time describing any symptoms that would be noticable while riding.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Wicked on October 18, 2014, 02:20:22 PM
In older days the motor would act "sluggish". Slower to rev up as in slower throttle response, but motor could still work without a hitch. Earlier HD's and V8's as well you could hear the intake sucking more...    Not sure on something injected though.....
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: hrdtail78 on October 18, 2014, 03:01:25 PM
Might run hot.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: gryphon on October 18, 2014, 03:10:14 PM
Yeah, those are all things I pretty much explained to the guy. As far as I could come up with there were no obvious and immediate signs (such as there are when your too advanced) though.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: 05FLHTC on October 18, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
Depending on the type of exhaust some will sound dull not sharp for lack of better words to explain it.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: koko3052 on October 18, 2014, 09:16:50 PM
 :hyst:Exhaust will sound " well duhh?"   :hyst: :embarrassed:
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: sfmichael on October 18, 2014, 09:57:15 PM
motor will be lazy and not build revs/power as it should
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Ohio HD on October 19, 2014, 03:35:10 AM
Quote from: koko3052 on October 18, 2014, 09:16:50 PM
:hyst: Exhaust will sound " well duhh?"   :hyst: :embarrassed:

     :emoGroan:
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: ScottyMoore on October 20, 2014, 01:34:05 AM
engine will start well, but loss of power with higher revs, right?
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: sfmichael on October 20, 2014, 01:39:17 AM
yes, if initial timing is correct or fairly close
more accurately, 'lack of advance' (kind of equates to being retarded) will diminish the engines ability to make full power and performance will suffer
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: 76shuvlinoff on October 20, 2014, 03:16:02 AM
I love my lawn mower tech shovel, advance it till it pings then back it off, done. 

Yeah I know  = redneck.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Mark222 on October 20, 2014, 04:05:43 PM
I love my lawn mower tech shovel, advance it till it pings then back it off, done.

Yeah I know  = redneck.  :embarrassed:

I remember simple too.  Now just try to find a "thin silver dime" to set points gap with..............

Mark
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: wholehog on October 20, 2014, 04:27:22 PM
if it's way retarded you'll get a drop in gas mileage
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: JC 92FXRS on October 20, 2014, 04:50:56 PM
The above are true....a couple of weeks ago I posted about a VOES connection breaking while riding.....changed the tone of the motor.....sort of hollowed it out....also drop in power at speed...cut my idle in half. fwiw and I'm sure you know, disconnected VOES will retard the timing. Didn't run it long enough for fuel milage.....but I'd bet it would drop significantly.
Cheers, Jeff

When I say cut power at speed...I mean when applying light power...wot, no too noticable.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Super Dave on October 20, 2014, 05:00:47 PM
I messed with the ignition timing, points, in a Triumph "back-in-the-day". Melted  holes right through the top of the pistons. Ran great until it lost compression.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: kd on October 20, 2014, 05:03:11 PM
Check your exhaust in the dark. If the pipes are glowing, or beginning to glow, it can be late timing and the unburned fuel / air mix is burning in the pipe.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: sandrooney on October 21, 2014, 03:28:38 AM
How much timing are you talking about ? I am running mine at -3* from 2250 rpm to 4500 rpm. 15% throttle to 60% throttle.  Seems to run fine.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: rbabos on October 21, 2014, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: sandrooney on October 21, 2014, 03:28:38 AM
How much timing are you talking about ? I am running mine at -3* from 2250 rpm to 4500 rpm. 15% throttle to 60% throttle.  Seems to run fine.
You mean you are running 3 less? -3 would really run like chit, if at all.
Ron
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Admiral Akbar on October 21, 2014, 08:03:22 AM
Quote from: rbabos on October 21, 2014, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: sandrooney on October 21, 2014, 03:28:38 AM
How much timing are you talking about ? I am running mine at -3* from 2250 rpm to 4500 rpm. 15% throttle to 60% throttle.  Seems to run fine.
You mean you are running 3 less? -3 would really run like chit, if at all.
Ron

At partial throttle?  What about if it was too far advanced to start? 

Here is a spot where I pulled 8.. It's a little softer but it don't run like crap..


[attach=0]

Max
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Admiral Akbar on October 21, 2014, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: hrdtail78 on October 18, 2014, 03:01:25 PM
Might run hot.

IMO then heat is generating the in the exhaust when retarded.. Have you ever checked this when tuning?  Like the CHT is not to bad but the bike feels hot?

Max
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: sandrooney on October 21, 2014, 11:00:07 AM
Yes 3 degrees less than 0.
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: HD/Wrench on October 21, 2014, 11:03:30 AM
Max that  so where is the TPS at with that RPM??  TMAX still using table after table.  :emoGroan:
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: 76shuvlinoff on October 21, 2014, 02:53:00 PM
Quote from: Mark222 on October 20, 2014, 04:05:43 PM
I love my lawn mower tech shovel, advance it till it pings then back it off, done.

Yeah I know  = redneck.  :embarrassed:

I remember simple too.  Now just try to find a "thin silver dime" to set points gap with..............

Mark

I have to admit I am using a slightly more modern lawn mower tractor as a benchmark.....
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Admiral Akbar on October 21, 2014, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on October 21, 2014, 11:03:30 AM
Max that  so where is the TPS at with that RPM??  TMAX still using table after table.  :emoGroan:

TPS is along the bottom... Yep 1 table every 256 RPM..  0 throttle is about 12 deg.

Max
Title: Re: What symptoms would you notice while riding if timeing was too retarded
Post by: Hossamania on October 22, 2014, 09:10:07 AM
Quote from: Mark222 on October 20, 2014, 04:05:43 PM
I love my lawn mower tech shovel, advance it till it pings then back it off, done.

Yeah I know  = redneck.  :embarrassed:

I remember simple too.  Now just try to find a "thin silver dime" to set points gap with..............

Mark


Instead of a dime, I remember using a matchbook cover. Except now you probably couldn't find one, and it would be too thin if you did.