HarleyTechTalk

Technical Forums => General => Topic started by: fleetmechanic on July 01, 2015, 04:58:45 PM

Title: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: fleetmechanic on July 01, 2015, 04:58:45 PM
For those of us still running stock air cleaners on '08-later touring models the question is whether the air filters can be cleaned with anything more than a blowgun to the outside, without damaging the "media"?  This is the only form of the media that we deal with.
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: slypig on July 01, 2015, 05:14:29 PM
I use dish soap and water.  Let it soak for a while.  Dishwasher works well.

Sly
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: Hossamania on July 01, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
Would using the K&N cleaner and a gentle hose from the inside out damage the stock filter?
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 03:23:40 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on July 01, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
Would using the K&N cleaner and a gentle hose from the inside out damage the stock filter?

How about just buying a K&N air filter...Life time filter.. over 90,000 on mine, clean and oil it about every 10,000 mi..Has the factory gone to washable, oilable filters ?   Other than the breather oil that oils them....lol 
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: carolinayarddog on July 02, 2015, 04:17:59 AM
Quote[/q

Would using the K&N cleaner and a gentle hose from the inside out damage the stock filter?

I've been using this method for years with never a problem


uote]
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: carolinayarddog on July 02, 2015, 04:20:09 AM
Sorry. Insert quote challenged.  Trying to say Hoss' suggestion works well
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:16:03 AM
I would not use an air hose to blow it out as you might damage it. Tap it gently to remove loose dirt from the outside and then rinse it from the inside to outside.  Let it dry. I clean them once this way and the second time around I would just buy a new filter. They are not that expensive.  As far as the K&N they do a piss poor job of filtering out dirt. Before someone bashes me about this statement do your own research. I would not run one if they were free.
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 05:19:02 AM
Quote from: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:16:03 AM
I would not use an air hose to blow it out as you might damage it. Tap it gently to remove loose dirt from the outside and then rinse it from the inside to outside.  Let it dry. I clean them once this way and the second time around I would just buy a new filter. They are not that expensive.  As far as the K&N they do a piss poor job of filtering out dirt. Before someone bashes me about this statement do your own research. I would not run one if they were free.

Where would one find this data on K&N doing a poor job ?  Is there a comparison somewhere ?
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: Pete_Vit on July 02, 2015, 05:38:03 AM
I see tons of results from my search on K & N Air filters where the application was dirt track racing most agree they don't do the job.
I found this 'somewhat' related YouTube video pretty interesting, comparing oil filters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I)

:potstir: 
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:40:28 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 05:19:02 AM
Quote from: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:16:03 AM
I would not use an air hose to blow it out as you might damage it. Tap it gently to remove loose dirt from the outside and then rinse it from the inside to outside.  Let it dry. I clean them once this way and the second time around I would just buy a new filter. They are not that expensive.  As far as the K&N they do a piss poor job of filtering out dirt. Before someone bashes me about this statement do your own research. I would not run one if they were free.

Where would one find this data on K&N doing a poor job ?  Is there a comparison somewhere ?

Sure. Here is a link to a test that is often referred to because it was done in laboratory conditions on very sophisticated equipment.  But it is far from the only one. Notice that the K&N let 30% more dirt through than the better filters.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/air-filter-study.html (http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/air-filter-study.html)
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 06:04:40 AM
Quote from: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:40:28 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 05:19:02 AM
Quote from: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:16:03 AM
I would not use an air hose to blow it out as you might damage it. Tap it gently to remove loose dirt from the outside and then rinse it from the inside to outside.  Let it dry. I clean them once this way and the second time around I would just buy a new filter. They are not that expensive.  As far as the K&N they do a piss poor job of filtering out dirt. Before someone bashes me about this statement do your own research. I would not run one if they were free.

Where would one find this data on K&N doing a poor job ?  Is there a comparison somewhere ?

Sure. Here is a link to a test that is often referred to because it was done in laboratory conditions on very sophisticated equipment.  But it is far from the only one. Notice that the K&N let 30% more dirt through than the better filters.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/air-filter-study.html (http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/air-filter-study.html)

Thank You for posting that Rich,  it is interesting..I find it a bit strange that an oiled filter lets in more dirt than a dry ... I have over 90,000 mi on my bike and it's had K&N air and oil since it's first oil change. Doesn't use enough oil to even worry about checking it unless hammering out a 500 mi a day trip, then she might use about 4 to 6 oz after about 1500 mi of highway running.. Fuel mileage is as good as the it was after break in..42 up to 50 mph depending on speed and terrain..  Thanx again for the post.
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 06:13:23 AM
Another interesting filter test, 
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm)

And another test:
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html (http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html)
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: dynaglide on July 02, 2015, 06:26:54 AM
what alternatives are there to a K&N air filter for aftermarket air cleaners?  Anybody besides K&N make a filter that fits, for example, an Evo air cleaner from Zippers?
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 06:47:51 AM
Quote from: dynaglide on July 02, 2015, 06:26:54 AM
what alternatives are there to a K&N air filter for aftermarket air cleaners?  Anybody besides K&N make a filter that fits, for example, an Evo air cleaner from Zippers?

Harley SE filters are synthetic media and might fit some after market air cleaners. At one time the SE filters were junk but not any more. They are a well made filter.
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: Pete_Vit on July 02, 2015, 06:57:16 AM
hum, I bought an SE air filter for my 96 Springer back in 2004-2005, the element looked exactly like the K & N I have for my car.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 07:19:48 AM
Quote from: Pete_Vit on July 02, 2015, 05:38:03 AM
I see tons of results from my search on K & N Air filters where the application was dirt track racing most agree they don't do the job.
I found this 'somewhat' related YouTube video pretty interesting, comparing oil filters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I)

:potstir:

LOL  I don't think that guy likes Fram filters much.. I've never used them in anything..
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: crazy joe on July 02, 2015, 07:26:41 AM
Someone posted awhile back a better air filter that has
has a metal mesh media. I have been looking but cant find
the site. Maybe someone remembers????
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: Pete_Vit on July 02, 2015, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: motorhogman on July 02, 2015, 07:19:48 AM
Quote from: Pete_Vit on July 02, 2015, 05:38:03 AM
I see tons of results from my search on K & N Air filters where the application was dirt track racing most agree they don't do the job.
I found this 'somewhat' related YouTube video pretty interesting, comparing oil filters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I)

:potstir:

LOL  I don't think that guy likes Fram filters much.. I've never used them in anything..
:agree:   it was a long, long time ago I was told by someone not to use Fram oil flters due to the material break down, I see the quality has not changed, but yea.... that guy seems to have an issue with Fram filters  :hyst:
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 08:04:40 AM
Quote from: crazy joe on July 02, 2015, 07:26:41 AM
Someone posted awhile back a better air filter that has
has a metal mesh media. I have been looking but cant find
the site. Maybe someone remembers????

Probably  Exotx.    http://www.exotx.com/filters.htm (http://www.exotx.com/filters.htm)
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: crazy joe on July 02, 2015, 08:53:37 AM
I think that's it    are they any good?
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: Ancient on July 02, 2015, 09:03:20 AM
Quote from: rich1 on July 02, 2015, 05:16:03 AM
I would not use an air hose to blow it out as you might damage it. Tap it gently to remove loose dirt from the outside and then rinse it from the inside to outside.  Let it dry. I clean them once this way and the second time around I would just buy a new filter. They are not that expensive.  As far as the K&N they do a piss poor job of filtering out dirt. Before someone bashes me about this statement do your own research. I would not run one if they were free.

Agree completely. I don't have any use for the oily rag air filters.
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 04, 2015, 04:49:45 AM
Quote from: Pete_Vit on July 02, 2015, 06:57:16 AM
hum, I bought an SE air filter for my 96 Springer back in 2004-2005, the element looked exactly like the K & N I have for my car.  :scratch:

Harley will sell you a K&N filter for an SE air cleaner. But that is not what comes with the air cleaner.
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 04, 2015, 04:53:50 AM
Quote from: crazy joe on July 02, 2015, 08:53:37 AM
I think that's it    are they any good?

I don't know. But if they prove to be a good filter that is what I will buy.
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: Beave on July 04, 2015, 07:07:02 AM
Someone previously posted about an issue with the metal mesh air filter sucking in debris when riding in the rain.  Might work great in Cali, but I wouldn't trust one.
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: Buffalo on July 04, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
  Never use air of any volume or description to clean a K&N type filter. Doing so blows the filters media open, making it useless!! I wash mine out from the inside with gasoline or varsol, air dry, then respray with the suitable oil.
Most factory air filters are NOT designed to be cleaned, air will do the same damage. Comparing what works on a street ridden Harley to a dirt track car is meaningless. Buy a K&N style air cleaner, follow the cleaning instructions carefully, run it until you retire from riding.  Buffalo
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: mrmike on July 04, 2015, 09:45:38 AM
I've been running an Exotx stainless mesh filter for about 2 years now, I haven't had any issues with it, when I clean it it's got a load of "Potty mouth" in it so it's obviously catching dirt.

I rode home from Laconia to Jersey a few weeks ago in almost non-stop rain that varied from drizzle to gully washers and there was no issue there either.

It is by far the easiest filter I've ever had to clean, I put some Simple Green in a 5 gallon bucket and let it soak for a few minutes swishing it around then hose it off blow it with some air to dry it off and put it back in.

It comes out as clean as the day I bought it.



Mike
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: rich1 on July 05, 2015, 04:01:59 AM
Quote from: mrmike on July 04, 2015, 09:45:38 AM
I've been running an Exotx stainless mesh filter for about 2 years now, I haven't had any issues with it, when I clean it it's got a load of "Potty mouth" in it so it's obviously catching dirt.

I rode home from Laconia to Jersey a few weeks ago in almost non-stop rain that varied from drizzle to gully washers and there was no issue there either.

It is by far the easiest filter I've ever had to clean, I put some Simple Green in a 5 gallon bucket and let it soak for a few minutes swishing it around then hose it off blow it with some air to dry it off and put it back in.

It comes out as clean as the day I bought it.



Mike

Thanks for the feedback Mike. I really like the concept of this filter and will most likely buy one.
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: hogpipes1 on July 05, 2015, 06:47:31 AM
3 bikes 2- with K&N, other stock H-D green  sponge type oiled filter , all get a wash job with hot water and dawn soap, rinsed out and aired dried... Once the filter is pulled off you can see  if the  the intake is clean , a finger around the inside will tell it all . if gritty your filter is not doing a good job.

Back side of AC plate has a gasket that needs a good seal. seen some missing /damaged  back side sucks air, if not sealed it will give you the dirty finger test..
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: mrmike on July 05, 2015, 06:39:42 PM
Good point Hogpipes and I can say that the back plate is very clean when I remove the filter.

Like I said swish it around in a bucket of warm soapy water rinse and blow and it's done.


Mike
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: Templar2 on July 06, 2015, 07:37:51 AM
I think the problem with some K&N filters has more to do with the way they are cleaned and re oiled rather than with their design.  Never had an issue with one, in my cars as well as in the bikes I have owned since the 70's.   :scratch:
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: trex on July 06, 2015, 09:37:20 AM
Quote from: crazy joe on July 02, 2015, 08:53:37 AM
I think that's it    are they any good?
That's what I am using and I love it. Stainless mesh, not the delicate paper stuff and supposedly filters better and breaths better. You can wash it in a washing machine but I just spray simple green and hose it off.
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: westbrs on July 06, 2015, 05:44:21 PM
How about a Drag Specialities dry air-filter?
https://www.denniskirk.com/drag-specialties/reusable-air-filter-1011-0320.p304486.prd/304486.sku (https://www.denniskirk.com/drag-specialties/reusable-air-filter-1011-0320.p304486.prd/304486.sku)
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: motorhogman on July 07, 2015, 04:53:32 AM
Quote from: westbrs on July 06, 2015, 05:44:21 PM
How about a Drag Specialities dry air-filter?
https://www.denniskirk.com/drag-specialties/reusable-air-filter-1011-0320.p304486.prd/304486.sku (https://www.denniskirk.com/drag-specialties/reusable-air-filter-1011-0320.p304486.prd/304486.sku)

Isn't that just a K&N ?
Title: Re: Cliening air filters?
Post by: tdgriff on July 07, 2015, 09:13:58 AM
Quote from: crazy joe on July 02, 2015, 07:26:41 AM
Someone posted awhile back a better air filter that has
has a metal mesh media. I have been looking but cant find
the site. Maybe someone remembers????
The filter I use is a Vance and Hines and has a metal mesh in it. When I got the filter it was a crome color.
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: westbrs on July 07, 2015, 10:14:03 AM
not like a K&N filter ---- this drag specialties filter 1011-0320 requires no oil -
Title: Re: Cleaning air filters?
Post by: glens on July 08, 2015, 11:37:10 AM
I think some of the problem folks have with K&N is cleaning too frequently and over-oiling when they do.