Hi all,
I have a 2001 SE Road Glide with the factory 95 engine. The previous owner did 10.5:1 pistons in the stock bore, Woods TW8 cams and the oil pump/tensioner upgrade, head work to modify the springs for the cams and compression releases. He ran a pro pipe and the MM injection with a Dyna tuner. It ran 101 HP/108 TQ. I have been running it for 5 years. Since I bought it, I have switched to a modified CV carb, DTT ignition, and a Bassani 2/1 pipe. I have never had it tuned on a dyno, but I run a wide band with a gauge in the dash at all times and it runs as good as it ever has.
My question is this - the previous owner was probably 150 pounds, didn't ride loaded down for touring. I am almost double that, and ride two up 90% of the time. I am thinking since I am over 60K miles, maybe I would freshen it up and seek a better torque set up - possibly more CI and less cam?? I have read a bunch of stuff, but it is probably an overload of information - I can't seem to find a set up that sounds like 'the one'. From what I understand, my lower end is a good one from the start, but I am not opposed to changing something there as well if needed.
Any ideas?
If it runs good, doesn't use oil, a cam change and tune may be all you need. To get more cubic inches would require going into the bottom end and stroking it, a not insignificant amount of money.
It runs good, and no oil use. I do like the grin it gives me when I outrun all of my buddies with 103s - even the cammed up versions. I just think bringing the torque curve down a bit in the RPM range would suit my riding better. I do not need to be the fastest, and I could care less about dyno sheet bragging.
Outrunning bikes with newer and bigger motors is fun on a 95" motor, for sure!
Those are pretty good numbers for a 95". Do you have any ideas what cam is in it now?
I run an SE204 that has nice torque down low, but starts running out of breath after 4500.
Woods TW8 cams in it now - does not come on until about 3500 RPM, but pulls hard to the redline I have at 6250. The thing is, while running hard is OK once in a while, the reality is most of the time the bike is in the under 3500 RPM range. My concern with just picking a 'torque' grind cam is if it will function well with the compression ratio I have.
I did forget to mention the other thing - the TW8 is very noisy. I would love to quiet the valve train down as an added bonus.
Good running 95" for sure.
I bet the bottom is somewhat soft though, which is what you're saying. Hard to say for sure without seeing the sheet. But the Woods 8 has IC of 47 and you are 95" so a softer bottom end is not surprising.
As far as options to firm up the 2500-3000 RPM area?
Maybe pick a cam with earlier IC. Maybe a T Man 590?
Could also just mill the heads some and stay with the Woods 8.
Both these options will raise cranking compression and make the motor more "finicky" as far as fuel and more likely to "ping".
Or you could go with a 103 or even 107 with moderate compression and mild camping like an Andrews 54 for example. The cubic inches alone but especially combine with the earlier intake close of a short cam will bolster the bottom end a lot and, given your style of riding, would likely get you where you want. You would likely lose some of the shock effect that you now have on your buddies though as your 95" currently sounds like a real hot rod. Decsions, decisions.
It was very picky about fuel and pinging before I swapped to the carb and adjustable ignition. I can still make it ping on a hot day fully loaded with premium non-oxy fuel, but it is not bad. It used to need octane booster added to every tank with the old set-up. And you are correct, it is way happier over 3000 RPM than under.
I would think you will get some decent cam suggestions here from some people in the know. Again, going to 103 or 107 will be pricey, and probably not necessary.
Here is where I get fuzzy on cams:
From the Woods site, my cam lists the following specs:
.053 timing = 49/17
.053 duration = 246
valve lift = .590
lift TDC = .176
From the T-Man site for the 590:
Open Close Lift Duration Centerline TDC LSA Overlap
Intake 22 44 590 246 101 209 102.5 42
Exhaust 48 20 590 248 104 188
I have to be honest I have no idea how to compare the two.
Quote from: ractrev on October 12, 2016, 06:57:17 AM
Woods TW8 cams in it now - does not come on until about 3500 RPM, but pulls hard to the redline I have at 6250. The thing is, while running hard is OK once in a while, the reality is most of the time the bike is in the under 3500 RPM range. My concern with just picking a 'torque' grind cam is if it will function well with the compression ratio I have.
A gearing change would have the same effect.....You still have the stock 5 speed in the bike ? A simple pulley swap from the factory 32 to a 31 or 30 will increase your rpm at any given speed giving you a mechanical advantage that will feel like more torque. Relatively inexpensive and simple too.......
Would really be effective with a 6 speed....The 5 speed may result in more cruising rpm than you like though.....
You're already running 3:37 gearing, I believe. Lowering it even more will start to push the highway rpm's.
Send a PM to Torquepimp with your cam questions.
Earlier intake valve closing will have the effect of increasing cranking compression which can raise the low end torque somewhat.
It also creates a more and more "finicky" engine.
If you want to just increase your low end torque some and firm up the low end on the cheap, then changing to cams with an earlier intake closing is the way to go. There is a realistic limit as to how early of intake closing you can get by with though on any given build. And that depends a lot on the static compression ratio of your build. You are likely a bit over 10.5:1 static with this 95" you have now. I picked the T Man 590 for its intake closing of 44 degrees. You could pick a cam with even earlier intake close (and there is any number of the out there) but the earlier intake close you go, the more finicky the motor will get. Everything is a compromise. Especially since this is not a build that is starting from scratch with everything measured and calculated.
Quote from: Hossamania on October 12, 2016, 07:52:54 AM
You're already running 3:37 gearing, I believe. Lowering it even more will start to push the highway rpm's.
Send a PM to Torquepimp with your cam questions.
Hoss is correct, if the bike still has stock gearing you have 3.37 gearing to begin with and changing the pulley will lower the gearing even more which you probably wouldn't want to do....
When your bike was new the Andrews TW26 would have been thought ideal for what you want, or maybe the S&S 510. Other cams have come along since then.
I think you need to find what pistons will work nicely with your heads to lower the compression ratio enough so that one of the 'torque' cams will work.
You will lose 10hp or more, but it doesn't sound as though that will bother you.
A compression ration of 9.5:1 would be a good place to aim for.
That is why I wondered about doing the entire top end - possibly upgrading to a 97 or 98 inch, lowering the compression a bit and choosing a cam to match. I do not mind losing some HP to get a more 'touring' friendly set up.
97/98 with flat tops and a S&S 570.
Quote from: remington007 on October 12, 2016, 11:31:35 AM
97/98 with flat tops and a S&S 570.
:up: or throw the 570's at it now. Nothing to loose. Old hippo builds hit hard @2500.
Or pm tourqepimp. He's never disappointed me on his advice.
86
Hears a nice 95
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81277.msg908089.html#msg908089 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81277.msg908089.html#msg908089)
Going big bore would satisfy all your issues and concerns. I went to a 106 on my 2004 95" and it was a huge improvement. I have a fresh 106 set of barrels and new pistons on the shelf I am not going to use, so PM me if you are interested. You are just a case bore away from having a motor that solves your issues.
Those barrels wouldn't be natural finish would they? No you have me really thinking about spending money....
I did PM Touqepimp - I will see what he says. I emailed S&S about 97/98 bore kits and cams - he recommended the 97 kit with 551 easy starts for 'a lot of torque'. It does seem like a economical way to go.
I have zero idea what case boring involves or costs. I am OK doing an upper end or cams, but I am sure the bottom end is something I would pay to get done.
Case boring means taking the engine apart and boring the holes where the cylinders fit in the crankcase to make them larger.
THEN you get to fit some nice very big bore cylinders, oh, AND a stroker crank while you are in there!
Resist the temptation if at all possible.
Or give in gracefully, only you and your wallet can decide.
You could do a Daytona Oil Pump, it will work with the stock cam plate.
Might do a compression test to see where you are at now if the top end isn't to worn, then you'd have an idea if a cam change only would be feasible. If the bike doesn't use oil then hopefully a comp. test would be decent indicator.
Quote from: DanDman on October 31, 2016, 09:16:12 PM
You could do a Daytona Oil Pump, it will work with the stock cam plate.
:scratch:
For sure if it will bring down the torque on the sweet 95" he has now. :slap:
I posted my suggestion in the wrong thread :bf:... but I'm making 112 ft lb with a '00 using a Daytona pump. 100 ft lb @ 2500 rpm.