Author Topic: Venting fix?  (Read 11225 times)

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Offline cmashark

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Venting fix?
« on: February 26, 2019, 06:14:56 PM »
New t-man video with a another avenue for crankcase venting.  Think this may help with sumping?

https://youtu.be/ni3pT5aHE4M
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Offline BVHOG

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 07:35:10 PM »
Saw that as well, going to try one on a 124 I'm building right now. Haven't seen the price yet and while you could easily put this together yourself it is nice to get something in a kit and ready to install.  I think the idea is great.
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Offline hd06

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 02:36:40 AM »
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.
 

Offline BVHOG

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 06:48:34 AM »
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.
 

It's not going in the transmission, it is tapped at the oil fill location which goes down through the trans case to the oil pan
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Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 10:19:31 AM »
I'll stick with venting it from the breather bosses in the air cleaner backing plate.

Offline TXCHOP

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 12:03:08 PM »
Saw that as well, going to try one on a 124 I'm building right now. Haven't seen the price yet and while you could easily put this together yourself it is nice to get something in a kit and ready to install.  I think the idea is great.

I did this on my old 117 build years back. Drilled and tapped the oil fill plug. I see where TMan cant market that though for general consumption. That was after i blew a set of base gaskets out due to HPI's tiny breather hoses choked up the motor.

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 08:13:22 PM »
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.
 

It's not going in the transmission, it is tapped at the oil fill location which goes down through the trans case to the oil pan

Yes, but below the video he makes the comment,

"Introducing our Oil Tank Vent Line Kit for the Twin Cam and Milwaukee-Eight™. It helps larger motors and high output motors - anything with a little extra crank case pressure - to relieve the pressure out of the transmission housing."

So either I am also confused or it is poorly worded. He probably should have said, "to relieve the pressure out of the oil pan."
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 08:17:54 PM »
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.
 

It's not going in the transmission, it is tapped at the oil fill location which goes down through the trans case to the oil pan

Yes, but below the video he makes the comment,

"Introducing our Oil Tank Vent Line Kit for the Twin Cam and Milwaukee-Eight™. It helps larger motors and high output motors - anything with a little extra crank case pressure - to relieve the pressure out of the transmission housing."

So either I am also confused or it is poorly worded. He probably should have said, "to relieve the pressure out of the oil pan."

You're confused. The transmission housing is the primary part to the oil pan. It was just a play on words. He can't say drill the oil pan. It is in fact the transmission housing that gets drill, at the oil filler for the oil pan that's part of the transmission housing.
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Offline JMHD

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 08:33:51 PM »
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2019, 06:52:07 AM »
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline cmashark

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2019, 11:45:57 AM »
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:
that vent you have pictured, only vents the transmission and primary.  The primary via the clutch push rod.  The crankcase and oil pan are connected only by an oil feed, an oil return, and a cast in vent line.  At no time does the engine oil system share air space with the transmission oil.  The oil filler is part of the transmission housing, but when the dipstick is removed only provides an air path through the oil pan area and the crankcase.
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Offline cmashark

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2019, 11:48:34 AM »
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!

It can only fix a crankcase vent issue, not a transmission or primary issue.  Their air spaces are not tied together.
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Offline PoorUB

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2019, 01:45:59 PM »
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!

It can only fix a crankcase vent issue, not a transmission or primary issue.  Their air spaces are not tied together.

Like I said already, I know  how the transmission,  primary  and engine connect  and vent. I was just trying to figure out if they were making more claims than just venting the pan.

I have been around  long enough to see guys come up with  ridiculous claims that their parts cure some problem,  but they are full of :turd: .
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2019, 03:39:44 PM »
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!

It can only fix a crankcase vent issue, not a transmission or primary issue.  Their air spaces are not tied together.

Like I said already, I know  how the transmission,  primary  and engine connect  and vent. I was just trying to figure out if they were making more claims than just venting the pan.

I have been around  long enough to see guys come up with  ridiculous claims that their parts cure some problem,  but they are full of :turd: .

My experience is that Tom Reiser isn't one of "those guys".
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Offline PoorUB

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2019, 04:12:44 PM »
My experience is that Tom Reiser isn't one of "those guys".

I didn't think he would be either, but like I said the wording threw me.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline JMHD

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2019, 04:51:39 PM »
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:
that vent you have pictured, only vents the transmission and primary.  The primary via the clutch push rod.  The crankcase and oil pan are connected only by an oil feed, an oil return, and a cast in vent line.  At no time does the engine oil system share air space with the transmission oil.  The oil filler is part of the transmission housing, but when the dipstick is removed only provides an air path through the oil pan area and the crankcase.
If you blow air down the hole in the transmission in the picture and have the engine oil dipstick resting on the threads it will pop the dipstick up, to me that shows they are connected. Just posted it to pass along what i found the other day. No worries. Just passing it along.

Offline rbabos

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2019, 07:45:43 AM »
Well, if this vent is for the case basically it defeats the purpose of the breather valves. There should be no need for all of these so called fixes from individuals. That's what they pay those HD engineers for. We had a saying at work. You fkd it up, you fix it. Sadly, this would be an admission to a problem and we all know HD isn't much on admitting to anything.
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Offline PoorUB

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2019, 09:33:34 AM »
Well, if this vent is for the case basically it defeats the purpose of the breather valves. There should be no need for all of these so called fixes from individuals. That's what they pay those HD engineers for. We had a saying at work. You fkd it up, you fix it. Sadly, this would be an admission to a problem and we all know HD isn't much on admitting to anything.
Ron

What problem? :idunno: :hyst:
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Offline Maddo Snr

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2019, 01:21:54 AM »
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The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:

Nah, that'd make the whole vent-valve system redundant. The passageway between sump and motor has three ports: From top to bottom 1) vent loop between sump and crankcase, 2) scavenge return, 3) oil feed from sump up to oil pump.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 01:30:44 AM by Maddo Snr »
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Offline Smarty

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2019, 08:14:33 AM »
Saw that as well, going to try one on a 124 I'm building right now. Haven't seen the price yet and while you could easily put this together yourself it is nice to get something in a kit and ready to install.  I think the idea is great.

Just finished putting together a 124 that Randy Torgeson did the SE cases, R&R crank, crank bearings, decked the cases smooth for the cylinders to sit perfect and seal, and deck the cylinders 0 deck. Got it put together after venting the heads and cranked it up. It weeped during the 5 heat cycles I did around the base gaskets. Didn't think too much about at the time and thought it would seal up. (yes, we used sealant on the base gaskets). Had a decent tune in the bike, it was about 45 degrees and decided to run it down the road easy and road it about 5 miles. Got back and oil was standing between the engine and transmission and running down the front of the case from the front cylinder as well. Talked to Randy and scratched our head a little and decided to vent the crankcase in the fill neck. I tapped it, put a 90 degree angle fitting with a barbed hose connector on the other end and ran a hose up to the battery area then pushed about 1 foot of the hose up into the the right side backbone under the tank. Cleaned everything up then cranked it up and let it get up to running temp with a fan blowing on the motor. No seeping whatsoever. I'm like, no way. Jumped on it and ran out the road again about 5 miles and got back. NO weeping, no oil, clean as a whistle. I'm still gonna tear it down and put the S&S oil passage dowels with o-rings on the block just for peace of mind and put another base gasket with sealant on it as well. The guys at R&R say they now build all their big CC engines with the added o-ring dowel and they also vent all the engine fill necks as well because of problems. Hope this saves others the added tear down like I had.
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Offline rudi_ufg

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2019, 12:11:21 AM »
New t-man video with a another avenue for crankcase venting.  Think this may help with sumping?

https://youtu.be/ni3pT5aHE4M

This could be an easier solution: https://skarke.de/en/products/oil-dipsticks/with-bleed-and-ventilation-filters

Offline Maddo Snr

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2019, 10:24:58 AM »
I'll stick with venting it from the breather bosses in the air cleaner backing plate.

This could well be part of the problem TD. When you look at those two tiny holes (especially with the SE stage 1s miniscule hoses!), it's darned obvious that the factory system is a pressure release system, not a proper dry-sump venting design.

The pressure fluctuations caused by two massive slugs (we're talking about the crank void changing by over 1200cc per crank rev) is NEVER going to be attenuated by those two tiny bleeds, further stifled by the two release valve-plates.

It could be that the pressure wave caused by the action of the pistons is purging the scavenge pump pneumatically and stopping it from picking up.

I've been reading a lot of my old Uni notes about dry sump systems, HDs M8 design breaks all the rules..

Sticking with what's in place now (and doesn't work) seems an unlikely solution.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 10:29:03 AM by Maddo Snr »
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Offline cmashark

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2019, 06:10:19 PM »
Another video released this week...

https://youtu.be/WB4swSegxwI
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2019, 06:40:39 PM »
Routing the oil breather hose back to the oil reservoir and then venting that to atmosphere sounds like a decent plan. Kinda like what's old is new. Old Big Twins vented the case to the oil bag, and then the case also vented to atmosphere. 
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Offline hd06

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Re: Venting fix?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2019, 06:49:55 PM »
 I'll keep my catch can.