Author Topic: Total scavenge oil change  (Read 1259 times)

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Offline kd

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 01:19:14 PM »
I stick the clear line into the quart and it draws it down easily and quickly.  Itís tough to get the heel without pulling air in so I leave it and start on a new quart.  I shut the engine off and restart to keep the fluid going in as a solid stream.

Hereís the instructions of the post works
KD

Offline Norton Commando

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2019, 01:27:03 PM »
It always bothered me that I was leaving about a quart (or 25%) of the old used oil in the system when I changed the oil normally. 

That seems like an awful lot of oil hanging around in the engine oil galleries. If the oil galleries and lines were 1/4" ID and 10 feet long, their total volume would be a whopping 3.3 fluid ounces. So where is the remaining 28.7 ounces of "used" oil hiding?

Jason
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Offline kd

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2019, 02:08:48 PM »
Sump, oil pan, oil lines, cooler, filter housing, cling and pooling.  I know it sounds like a lot but on an oil change most use 3 1/2 quarts wet fill.  I believe the original dry fill is +4 and the manual says 3.5 on an oil change.  You have to recognize that some galleries may have been flushed and others are still discharging filthy dirty oil.  Near the end of the flush you can start to see streaks of old and new oil draining out of the pan plug.
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2019, 02:54:30 PM »
Sump, oil pan, oil lines, cooler, filter housing, cling and pooling.  I know it sounds like a lot but on an oil change most use 3 1/2 quarts wet fill.  I believe the original dry fill is +4 and the manual says 3.5 on an oil change.  You have to recognize that some galleries may have been flushed and others are still discharging filthy dirty oil.  Near the end of the flush you can start to see streaks of old and new oil draining out of the pan plug.

 :up:  Fresh motors in touring bikes with EVERYTHING drained take 4 quarts. Changes after that, oil system is wet, take 3-1/2 quarts.
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Offline Deye76

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2019, 04:38:33 PM »
Try to stay out of oil threads, but always looking to offer a another perspective. How many motors have gone near or at 100,000 miles without this? 4 in my riding career, the others I didn't keep that long. I've done several samples sent in to Blackstone, never a analysis that came back with concern. Not even my recent Ultima 113" failure and repair from the manufacturer. With all the metal in that motor from the oil pump failure, and the parts that Ultima replaced that I thought wasn't enough, the Blackstone report that came back showed nothing alarming. The motor has used no oil, and I'll be sending another sample in soon. I'm not expecting any bad news. The facts are, folks who practice good hygiene when building a motor, and keep their oil and filters (air included) changed at established intervals can rest assured that a few ounces of old oil won't overcome a fresh filter and clean oil. Ultima has a plug in the crankcase belly that is sturdy enough to be pulled every oil change to drain the sump. If building a TC from the ground up I would do something to the plug hole that would strengthen it so it could be pulled with out worry of stripping the threads.
East Tenn.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2019, 04:41:47 PM »
John, I don't think it's a problem at all. But if I can easily have a 99% fresh oil change, why not?
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Offline 98fxstc

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2019, 05:07:33 PM »
John, I don't think it's a problem at all. But if I can easily have a 99% fresh oil change, why not?

 :up:

Offline kd

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2019, 05:13:50 PM »
 :agree:   Call it OCD if you like but if there's a way to do a better job, I'm in.  :teeth:  I kinda like the warm fuzzy feeling.  Your oil is so clean that it's amazing how long it takes before you can easily read your oil level on the stick when you get such a fresh start. I suspect with Blackstone reports the interval recommendation would also be extended enough to make it worthwhile.
KD

Offline Barrett

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2019, 05:44:04 PM »
I'm sold on this. I plan on adding one to my tool box.
I'll probably break something else before dirty oil hurts anything but I'll still feel better about getting all of it out on a change..

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2019, 05:47:20 PM »
I also remember when I put my 124 in the frame and fired it up. The oil was clean for a really long time. Really good ring seal, valve seal, etc. But each oil change after, the oil gets dirty faster.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2019, 05:50:12 PM »
I'll add too that when I change the oil, it's on the lift, and several other things get looked at. An oil change may result in the bike being on the lift for a full day, maybe two. I run the crap out of my bikes, so I go over several things at oil change. The additional time it'll take to flush the oil means little to me.
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Offline cheech

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2019, 07:36:36 PM »
So the premise of the touring kit is; The puck just closes the filter circuit, the pan fitting blocks the pan feed to the pump while simultaneously allowing the fresh oil to be drawn in from a new quart. And the dirty is discharging out of the pan with no drain  plug?

Offline kd

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2019, 08:22:16 PM »
 :up:  Thatís it
KD

Offline thumpr54

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2019, 09:54:36 PM »
I too liked the idea of replacing a higher % of my oil if I could easily. I got a scavenger and used it on my 09 Road King...worked good. When I got my 16 Road Glide and went to change the oil the first time....the adapter didn't want to go into the pipe plugged hole next to the drain plug the same as it did on the RK. It felt like the holes inside didn't line up exactly....and cut the o-ring on the adapter. I could get the threads started but it seemed it took too much forcing to go all the way in....so it never made it all the way in. The guy at Rogues was interested and sent me some new O-rings but couldn't provide any reason for my problem...so I been doing regular oil changes on it since. If I ever have the oil pan off of it I'll be checking it out....
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Offline jmorton10

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2019, 01:22:31 AM »
I've been using that scavenge kit for years just because it make me feel good.

Is it necessary, of course not.  A buddy of mine likes to pick on me about it, he thinks it's stupid & I can't really argue with his as he has a 2002 that has over 200,000 miles on it with nothing more than changing the dino oil he runs every 5000 miles.

~John
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2019, 02:40:04 AM »
I too liked the idea of replacing a higher % of my oil if I could easily. I got a scavenger and used it on my 09 Road King...worked good. When I got my 16 Road Glide and went to change the oil the first time....the adapter didn't want to go into the pipe plugged hole next to the drain plug the same as it did on the RK. It felt like the holes inside didn't line up exactly....and cut the o-ring on the adapter. I could get the threads started but it seemed it took too much forcing to go all the way in....so it never made it all the way in. The guy at Rogues was interested and sent me some new O-rings but couldn't provide any reason for my problem...so I been doing regular oil changes on it since. If I ever have the oil pan off of it I'll be checking it out....

Check with them, I think they reference this change on their website:

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Offline thumpr54

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2019, 04:48:12 AM »
Thanx, PCH....guess I shoulda gone back later and checked again instead of just giving up on the idea.... :bike:
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Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2019, 05:14:00 AM »
To summarize:
Would it cause any harm to the return side of the oil pump, to run an extra quart of oil out the oil filter mount base without the oil filter?
Bad idea- wastes oil, no feed to engine.

So the premise of the touring kit is; The puck just closes the filter circuit, the pan fitting blocks the pan feed to the pump while simultaneously allowing the fresh oil to be drawn in from a new quart. And the dirty is discharging out of the pan with no drain  plug?

Valid idea for those who wish to be more thorough.

Offline Norton Commando

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2019, 07:40:59 AM »
Ok, I think we're talking about half a quart or less of oil that clings to various bits in the engine and lubrication system. I like the Scavenger concept for flushing out this old oil, but I will not be installing the kit on my '12 FLHTK when changing the motor oil.

Why not? Because I have an oil temperature transducer installed in the 1/4" NPT port in the oil pan, which is where the kit calls for installing the hose barb fitting. I just don't like the idea of removing and reinstalling the transducer every oil change. But I do like the Scavenger concept and believe it is beneficial.  And if it weren't for the transducer, I would be using the kit when changing oil.   

Best,

Jason
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 11:35:39 AM by Norton Commando »
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Offline djl

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2019, 08:32:18 AM »
Have been using the Scavenger on both my early A and B motors for about 12 years.  Back then, the system was considered over kill and not necessary and it probably is overkill and unnecessary but I really like checking the oil at 3K miles and it is still looks like honey.  I usually go 5K miles between changes which is one annual change on each bike a year so the total oil change was appealing for me.  Takes a little more time but IMHO, worth it. :up:

Offline rbabos

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2019, 10:08:02 AM »
Have been using the Scavenger on both my early A and B motors for about 12 years.  Back then, the system was considered over kill and not necessary and it probably is overkill and unnecessary but I really like checking the oil at 3K miles and it is still looks like honey.  I usually go 5K miles between changes which is one annual change on each bike a year so the total oil change was appealing for me.  Takes a little more time but IMHO, worth it. :up:
All this cracks me up. Must get every last drop out and then use a 30 micron filter on it.  Must refrain. :hyst:
Ron

Offline IronButt70

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2019, 10:15:22 AM »
Ok, I think were talking about half a quart or less of oil that clings to various bits in the engine and lubrication system. I like the Scavenger concept for flushing out this old oil, but I will not be installing the kit on my '12 FLHTK when changing the motor oil.

Why not? Because I have an oil temperature transducer installed in the 1/4" NPT port in the oil pan, which is where the kit calls for installing the hose barb fitting. I just don't like the idea of removing and reinstalling the transducer every oil change. But I do like the Scavenger concept and believe it is beneficial.  And if it weren't for the transducer, I would be using the kit when changing oil.   

Best,

Jason
You could move the transducer to one of the drilled passages where the oil filter mounts.  Thatís where mine is installed.
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Offline PoorUB

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2019, 10:21:41 AM »
All this cracks me up. Must get every last drop out and then use a 30 micron filter on it.  Must refrain. :hyst:
Ron

The whole deal cracks me up. The oil was perfectly good the day before, but today it all has to go. If the oil is so bad it needs a flush it needed to be changed a long time ago.

Do you guys flush the oil on your cars and trucks too?

I guess I see crazier stuff, like 2,500 mile oil changes, running synthetic. Replacing spark plugs every year, with 3,000 miles on them....

I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2019, 11:06:13 AM »
All this cracks me up. Must get every last drop out and then use a 30 micron filter on it.  Must refrain. :hyst:
Ron

The whole deal cracks me up. The oil was perfectly good the day before, but today it all has to go. If the oil is so bad it needs a flush it needed to be changed a long time ago.

Do you guys flush the oil on your cars and trucks too?

I guess I see crazier stuff, like 2,500 mile oil changes, running synthetic. Replacing spark plugs every year, with 3,000 miles on them....

If you guys don't want to use it, then don't. Don't knock others because they wish to use it.
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Offline kd

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Re: Total scavenge oil change
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2019, 11:10:19 AM »
Hey .... at least we're not debating dino / syn.  :teeth:   I know the old shovel and the hokey horse hair filter was used for ever too.  It probably introduced contamination from rough handling.  :crook:  The present system tips the relief valve too easy causing bypass and everyone worries about microns.   :scratch: 

I don't mind doing the flush because I know I haven't diluted the additives and those little bits I spray on my cylinder walls from the squirters have been removed.  Yup, OCD.  Harmful, not on your life.  Beneficial, you'll have a hard time convincing me that a fresh load is not as good or better than a partial fresh load.  I think there's even an argument that you can extend the service point if it's all fresh. (like an extended trip for example may not need to do an early oil change to get you home without the interruption of a service.)

 
KD