Tmax and backfiring

[7hogs]

OK, so I went for a short ride to get the general information.  But most places here are very busy during the day so I plan a short ride this evening to verify my findings.

I hear the noise start at about 2100 rpm (32mph in 3rd gear) at about 16 TPS and it gets loudest at about 2350 rpm (35mph in 3rd gear) at about 20 TPS and is gone about 2500 rpm (38 mph in 3rd gear) at about 25 TPS.  After which I do hear valves and pistons sliding but the noise is gone.

Sooo - If I look at the timing, over this TPS over this RPM range,
@ 2048 RPM - timing is 34* from 16 to 22 TPS, dropping to 33* at 24 TPS to 31* at 25 TPS.
@ 2304 RPM - timing is 35* from 16 to 25 TPS
@ 2560 RPM - timing is 37* from 16 to 22 TPS, dropping to 35* at 23 TPS to 34* at 25 TPS

As you know with just tape marks to go by the TPS numbers are subject to error one way or another.  I used the big boys chart to guestimate the RPM vs speed.

So now if I understand correctly, dropping ignition by 2* across these RPM ranges and TPS positions would be the next step.  Correct?

...gene

See revised MAP. Load it in your bike, re initialize and let me know if it is better if so make sure you ride it for a least 1-2 tanks of gas read the learned offsets and send me the MAP so I can see where it is adjusting.

[mayor]

See revised MAP.

can you attach the revised map?

[7hogs]

Crap................... It is on my laptop at home and it will have to be later today.................

Sorry 

[genedjr]

 
Well, can you tell me what you did?
While I may not understand what all the adjustments do, I do know how ot make them  

Here is what I did this morning.  I dropped the timing vs engine speed and dropped 1* across the 2048, 2306, and 2560 from one position right of 14 TPS to about 22 TPS.

...gene

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[7hogs]

Gene,

I am my office and I do not have the software on this computer but I am going home for lunch and I will get it to you then.

[genedjr]

OK - I applied this map and it helped, but did not cure the ping.  It was VERY quite until it warmed up then the noise was back.

Also it appeared that I am pretty close in the 14 TPS to 20 TPS range, but not so good over that.  So, you guys were right, there is too much timing in the map at this point.

I look forward to trying Jim's version.  Its 80 out here today, so I plan at least a 150 mile ride this afternoon.
...gene

[mayor]

Gene, have you tried anything past 59.1 tps yet on map 11?

[7hogs]

Here it is guys..............

compare and let me know I have to jet to a doctor's appointment.

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[genedjr]

Gene, have you tried anything past 59.1 tps yet on map 11?

Only under excelleration.  I have done WOT from start, from 30mph, from 50mph and from 70mph.  If feels real strong.
I have not really done any testing under hard decel.  But the couple I did showed huge backfire but only at certain speeds.  I need to do more data gathering here.

I am off to try Jim's map. 
...gene

[7hogs]

Gene,

Maybe we should start a new thread since we got off of the original posters problem.

Just a thought.

[genedjr]

Good idea Jim.  Sproket99 - I hope you get yours sorted out.
...gene

[sprocket99]

Good idea Jim.  Sproket99 - I hope you get yours sorted out.
...gene

Hey, thanks for the concern. I have no problem with whatever works for you. I didn't feel hijacked, these things sometimes take on a life of their own and it turns into a learning experience for all. It was interesting for me to follow what was happening in your situation, so now I'll track your new thread. It looks like we both are getting advice that's working and that is the point.

[mgmmgm]

I have had my TMAX for 2 years. I bought the dang thing since it was supposed to ( auto tune ) . I'd rather be able to have a system that can be tuned on a dyno and be dialed in,  than to have to mess around to get things dialed in. With that said, I can appreciate the the technical skill that tmax users have, I am not a tech person. I got 1200 miles on my 103 build, and i runs worse after riding and writing learned offsets not once but twice, in 400 miles. I was thinking that it learns in a 20% margin and narrows down from there with each learned read write of offsets.

i am getting 34 mpg, changed plugs to solve sputtering sensation. No good. I would have no problem if, IF there was a tuner that was local that could dial in my Tmax - there is no one in my area that does that. I have talked to Pete at Zippers and their crew at times for help, they are helpful but after my 103 build, they suggested running the map that did not accommodate my Baisley heads, what's that about? I give up.

Hmmm, can't say that I like the pops, crackles of my D&D's and slight missing and surging in the 1-2-3rd gears 20-40 mph range.

I am heading to a TTS master tune to give that a go, it can't be worse than my tmax i have now.

Cheers

[sprocket99]

I have had my TMAX for 2 years. I bought the dang thing since it was supposed to ( auto tune ) . I'd rather be able to have a system that can be tuned on a dyno and be dialed in,  than to have to mess around to get things dialed in. With that said, I can appreciate the the technical skill that tmax users have, I am not a tech person. I got 1200 miles on my 103 build, and i runs worse after riding and writing learned offsets not once but twice, in 400 miles. I was thinking that it learns in a 20% margin and narrows down from there with each learned read write of offsets.

i am getting 34 mpg, changed plugs to solve sputtering sensation. No good. I would have no problem if, IF there was a tuner that was local that could dial in my Tmax - there is no one in my area that does that. I have talked to Pete at Zippers and their crew at times for help, they are helpful but after my 103 build, they suggested running the map that did not accommodate my Baisley heads, what's that about? I give up.

Hmmm, can't say that I like the pops, crackles of my D&D's and slight missing and surging in the 1-2-3rd gears 20-40 mph range.

I am heading to a TTS master tune to give that a go, it can't be worse than my tmax i have now.

Cheers

Granted, I am a newbie at this EFI tuning, but from what I understand both units can do pretty much the same thing. I know people who have the TMax and with the same bike setup as mine, just plugged and played. Tolerances can make a difference from bike to bike. If the person who puts your bike on a dyno isn't a top notch tuner, you'll get crap results. Won't matter what system you have. I have been working with someone at Zippers for a year now and they haven't been able to come close to the results I have now. Maybe it's their training or maybe they are restricted from making certain changes, I don't know. It's puzzling since they appear to be concerned about these issues.
If I'm wrong, please somebody set me straight. It would be a shame to waste your time and money, but that's your call.

[mayor]

I am heading to a TTS master tune to give that a go, it can't be worse than my tmax i have now.

Cheers

Granted, I am a newbie at this EFI tuning, but from what I understand both units can do pretty much the same thing. I know people who have the TMax and with the same bike setup as mine, just plugged and played. Tolerances can make a difference from bike to bike. If the person who puts your bike on a dyno isn't a top notch tuner, you'll get crap results. Won't matter what system you have. I have been working with someone at Zippers for a year now and they haven't been able to come close to the results I have now. Maybe it's their training or maybe they are restricted from making certain changes, I don't know. It's puzzling since they appear to be concerned about these issues.
If I'm wrong, please somebody set me straight. It would be a shame to waste your time and money, but that's your call.

  I agree.  I'm new to the T-max myself, but I think that it's a pretty good set up for "tweakers" to work with.  If one's goal is to have a pro-tuner tune their bike and forget it....then the TTS is probably hands down the best way to go, but I believe there is real potential of reaching a good tune using the T-max with just a basic amount of knowledge, help from fellow members of this forum, and a little bit of patience. 

I haven't spoke with Zippers tech people myself, but I've talked to a few people who have.  My guess is that they (Zippers) are inundated with calls  from people who have very little knowledge about tuning and probably most of those people didn't read the manual thoroughly enough past the install section to familarize themselves with map adjustments...so they take the easy way out by telling someone to just switch maps.  I found the last part of my statement to be true with my brother.  He had the T-max a full year before me, spoke regularly to Zippers, yet he only knew how to switch maps when I first started using the T-max. 

[7hogs]

I have had my TMAX for 2 years. I bought the dang thing since it was supposed to ( auto tune ) . I'd rather be able to have a system that can be tuned on a dyno and be dialed in,  than to have to mess around to get things dialed in. With that said, I can appreciate the the technical skill that tmax users have, I am not a tech person. I got 1200 miles on my 103 build, and i runs worse after riding and writing learned offsets not once but twice, in 400 miles. I was thinking that it learns in a 20% margin and narrows down from there with each learned read write of offsets.

i am getting 34 mpg, changed plugs to solve sputtering sensation. No good. I would have no problem if, IF there was a tuner that was local that could dial in my Tmax - there is no one in my area that does that. I have talked to Pete at Zippers and their crew at times for help, they are helpful but after my 103 build, they suggested running the map that did not accommodate my Baisley heads, what's that about? I give up.

Hmmm, can't say that I like the pops, crackles of my D&D's and slight missing and surging in the 1-2-3rd gears 20-40 mph range.

I am heading to a TTS master tune to give that a go, it can't be worse than my tmax i have now.

Cheers

Couple of questions.

Is it taking away fuel in the curves or adding.

To double check you have 1200 miles on the build and the TMAX?

Where do you live?

I just got done tuning a HAMC drag bike that would not even run off throttle and I got it up in running with in an hour the guy came to pick it up did a 30ft burn and came bike smiling from ear to ear and said it never ran like that before. Zippers said it was the TPS sensor??

I have a 107" and it get 39+ in town and 45+ on the highway and runs smmmooooooooootthh (quote from Max) and cool.

Run a monitor log to full warm up and send it to me with the MAP.

If you do not want to give it a shot that is cool and do what is best for you. That is the most important thing but it can be fixed.

[7hogs]

mmgmmgm,

Make sure your firmware and software is up to date. That makes a huge difference.

[7hogs]

Posted my MAP on a new thread

[sprocket99]

It looks like I now have a map that is making my bike run the way I would expect. I know I still have to put on some miles to see the true benefit, and there might be some adjustments in the future. Still, in the space of a few days I've gone farther than in the last 12 months and feel like I have a new machine.
gene- No problem, I'm glad your "hijacking" of my thread is working out for you  .
And much thanks to 7hog and mayor for all the help. Like the young people say, you guys rock.

[genedjr]

Sproket99 --- DUDE! great days - glad the guys could fix you up. 
...gene

[mayor]

And much thanks to 7hog and mayor for all the help. Like the young people say, you guys rock.

no need to thank me, I think Jim did most of the heavy lifting.   

It looks like I now have a map that is making my bike run the way I would expect.

can you attach a copy of your current map? 

[sprocket99]

here it is, Jim added more timing and AFT correction than the previous map and I could tell the difference right away

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