04 RK 95" BUILD OIL PUMP AND CRANK AS SUSSPECTED !!!!!!!!!!!!

[biggzed]

Cause of, or root of the problem is , I was riding two up , dropped the bike down from 4th gear to third gear and nailed the throttle , Hammered it through 4th and in to fifth and let off . I believe this is when the crank scissored  and caused the check engine light to come on and shortly after that the oil pump failed. The crank obviously took out the scavenging side of the oil pump as the crank is clearly .020 to .030 out of true, easy to see with the naked eye, no scope needed here!

At what rpm or speed did you drop it into 3rd gear from?

I agree the focus should be on fixing the problem and preventing it from happening again..... BUT how can you be sure it is fixed if you don't know what went wrong? I agree with Hardy, you need to find the root cause.

JMO
Zach

[les]

That's the junk Harley pump.  My Fueling went fine for many many miles with a crank that was .020" runout.

[Don D]

OK here's my take
The motor gets pulled down and full diagnostics anyway so at that time the "root cause" will be addressed and we know what that is likely anyway, scissored wheels.
If the snout of the crank is OK and both sides are in acceptable tolerances for runout it could be fixed right now if you want to just get it back on the road.
If the motor comes out then more can be done
4.125" bore either way with a case bore
107 or 117"
Why spend more for a stroker crank when the stock crank fixed with a case bore will make a very sound 107"

The budget comes into the scenario now.

Buy the stroker crank and same holds true but now a very strong and reliable 117 comes into play.
The 6H (and 8 would be the cats meow though) can stay and at 117 with dished pistons, Axtell / JE, you could be knocking on 130+ torque 100 hitting at 2k and with reasonable compression.

The heads
At 107" or 117" they could just be freshened and chamber opened, but to optimize 117" larger valves would be wise especially if a larger cam is used.

I have a few decent 4" cranks, cores if needed

[05FLHTC]

IME what ya need to let go of is the concept of keeping any of yr money at this point. Don't fight it, let go, I'm a tight ass & fought it & ended up with a 103 that now if I would have just let go...I would have ended up with a 117 or larger.

After it's all done & yr broke you can join me with my true hatred for HD.  The really ironic thing is they had a decent design up until 2003, wouldn't ya know the infamous anniversary year!  Not sure what they saved prolly 25 bucs lol per motor maybe? That savings added up & worked so well that then they decided to mate that POS bearing up with the cast crank in 05 then lets not leave out the new dick head rods...friggin good for nuttin MOCO!

That's my story and ya wonder why I'm bitter  it's all about money...

[11.7to1]

Root cause = 2004.

From a production standpoint, it was likely more than 25 dollar savings. Time savings meant lower mfg cycle times and increased throughput. But even at 25 bucks, and about half a million units a year is over 12 million dollars. I'm sure the donkey sitting in the cubicle was rewarded for that 'cost savings'. I wouldn't recommend anything over 2002 to anyone I know.

[hardyheadscom]

When mine failed it was due to a panic stop I made without pulling the clutch, it was stupid on my part   but I'm really just glad to be able to still be here and write/talk about it.

it`s not your fault ...it`s harleys.....for building such a laim designed crank..
S&S Jims have the same probs I hand delivered 3 cranks to jims a few weeks ago and sent off two cranks to S&S...those are just the ones I felt were worth repairings

[jack5hd]

MAKE IT AS BIG AND RELIABLE AS YOU CAN.I STAYED WITH 95 AND WISH NOW I HAD MORE....MONEY WAS AN ISSUE.BUT AT LEAST DO IT RIGHT...I HAD .037 RUNOUT AND MY FEULING OIL PUMP, IT WAS STILL OK..I EVEN SENT IT OFF TO THEM AND THEY CHECKED IT OUT AND GAVE ME NEW O-RINGS AND SHIPPED BACK TO ME AT NO CHARGE...I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL, BUT DO IT RIGHT..GET IT WELDED AND TIMKEN AND SO ON.....AT LEAST IT IS STILL WINTER

[Clutch Cargo]

Fueling pump I found on eSlay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130366280549&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Oddly enough, we have seen 3, 2004's, "Potty mouth" the bed, in the last 6 months. 2 "B" engines, and the other rubber mounted.
Scott

[05FLHTC]

Oddly enough, we have seen 3, 2004's, "Potty mouth" the bed, in the last 6 months. 2 "B" engines, and the other rubber mounted.
Scott

It's only just begun...

[Topend]

Gotta jump in and ask a question. What kinda $$$ is he looking at if he takes his bike into an indy shop and has the work done for just a stock crank welded & repaired? What about if he went to a 107"? What about a 117"?

[fourthgear]

Oddly enough, we have seen 3, 2004's, "Potty mouth" the bed, in the last 6 months. 2 "B" engines, and the other rubber mounted.
Scott

It's only just begun...

Upon reading this post , one has to wonder on why are you blasting HD, I'm not sticking up for them ,but some of the blame for the cranks going bad may have some thing to do with them being built up & beyond what they were made for as far as stresses are concerned . Not to mention how I see some ride them , like they stole them .
I am an older rider now but have had my day & to blame HD for every thing you do to them ,especially if they have been built up beyond what they were designed for & blame it on them is ridiculous.
I have two Panheads & an 03 Ultra, two have straight roller bearings & one (the 65 )has tapered. Seems the straight rollers on my 48 have been around a while & yes if you build them up & hot rod them like you stole them ,you might have problems as with any other HEAVY motor cycle .
Now I'm not saying not to build them or hot rod them , I have done it my self for years ,but ya have to know it has consequences, blaming the moco for the changes you make or your driving habits is barking up the wrong tree ,so to speak.
  Because a shop gets a couple broken ones out of how many tens of thousands is not an indication they are all bad.
If you hate HD, get some thing else.
And if your a shop , You know you are going to see this , every thing has a service life ,just some have less because of how they are driven or just because of it being  manufactured product.
Now just hoping my 03 holds out for many miles ,like my Pan's. LOL

[05FLHTC]

I built at the time what was considered mild reliable 100/100 build, and not even 10K miles later the crank was out from .002 to .0055.

I don't care blame me or whom ever ya want. I think it's BS that all these cranks the heart of the motors are shifting and yea I got $5 thousand reasons to be pissed off at em.

How many EVO motors that had performance mods ended up with the crank at .0055?

Then lets take HD's side for a moment, let's see we got a crank problem so let's just change the new max runout to 10 thous that should fix it...

[Admiral Akbar]

So Scott,

Did the flywheels twist or the bearings blow?

How many EVO motors that had performance mods ended up with the crank at .0055?

So how many HD Evos have made 100/100 ( you can't count the after market motors)   

I have two Panheads & an 03 Ultra, two have straight roller bearings & one (the 65 )has tapered. Seems the straight rollers on my 48 have been around a while & yes if you build them up & hot rod them like you stole them ,you might have problems as with any other HEAVY motor cycle .

Nothing wrong with the early bearing spacer setup.. much better then the current setup to control endplay... Nice wide shims on the flywheels.  How much HP does that pan put to the rear wheel.. 35? 40? The pan still uses a tapered crank pin and a nuts..

On the pans are the heads still original?  Never been apart?

Max

[PoorUB]

And HD wonders why they are loosing new bike sales...

Funny, As far as I know HD's sales are better percentage wise than any other manufacturer!

[05FLHTC]

And HD wonders why they are loosing new bike sales...

Funny, As far as I know HD's sales are better percentage wise than any other manufacturer!

I'll bet if ya ask the folks that have lost their jobs that used to work for HD in the last couple years don't find any humor in it at all 

[fourthgear]

So Scott,

Did the flywheels twist or the bearings blow?

How many EVO motors that had performance mods ended up with the crank at .0055?

So how many HD Evos have made 100/100 ( you can't count the after market motors)   

I have two Panheads & an 03 Ultra, two have straight roller bearings & one (the 65 )has tapered. Seems the straight rollers on my 48 have been around a while & yes if you build them up & hot rod them like you stole them ,you might have problems as with any other HEAVY motor cycle .

Nothing wrong with the early bearing spacer setup.. much better then the current setup to control endplay... Nice wide shims on the flywheels.  How much HP does that pan put to the rear wheel.. 35? 40? The pan still uses a tapered crank pin and a nuts..

On the pans are the heads still original?  Never been apart?

Max

The 48 motor has 52 heads with the so called unleaded conversion . I was laid off at the time and went cheap , had to & Head Hog's price was more than I could afford. Been trouble free for over five years. The 65 has had the heads re-done by Head Hog to OEM spec's .
When I buy one of these old bikes ,they go to bare frame & every thing is disassembled & inspected.Both were running when I bought them .
Yes ,I know the HP diff. ,but the torque on these heavy bikes can break things very easy.

[sacbluescat]

refreshing this post for comparison