Sumping again....with the NEW Oil pump

[tmwmoose]

So it looks like the AMF years will no longer be considered the  years of Harley 

[Reddog74usa]

Been that way for a while now 

[Hossamania]

So it looks like the AMF years will no longer be considered the  years of Harley

They are now considered "classic" years....

[JB2017CVO]

Well....all I can say is I supposedly had the latest and greatest oil pump installed in my 2017 CVO stage 4 about 2 weeks ago and once again it sumped...Not sure they have a clue as to what is really going on...Harley engineer is coming down again next week to tear down the motor in my bike with the tech and see if they can find an issue...If I hear anything I will be sure to keep yall informed...

[WhipLash96]

I bought a 2017 CVO Street glide back in Jan or so...I ran it stock for a little while and the damn oil pump went out on it and fried the top end...While they were having to redo the top end I went ahead and put in a stage 4...rode it for a couple thousand miles and then it began to sump...The put another top end in it and it did the same thing...They then put an entirely new motor in and it sumped again...So in August they gave me an entirely new bike...At that time we held off on the stage 4 and just rode it stock...it did fine...I put about 5k on it with no issues...They called me a couple of weeks ago and said that they were ready to install the stage 4 kit again that they were putting the NEW oil pump in it this time...I picked the bike up on Friday and by Sunday it had sumped again...Has anyone else installed the new oil pump and used the new updated SB1450 procedures and still had issues with sumping or am I the only one? Harley is sending down one of their engineers AGAIN to look at my bike...

I am going to make a copy of this . next time dealer ask me when am i going to buy a new bike.? i get tired  telling them all the issues now with the M-8.  use to be the T-Cam,  but they always have the same story, Never heard of that issue.  Well here ya go read this .

I had a friend that did just this today. LMAO

[Thermodyne]

BMW is gaining more appeal....

If nothing else I am sure glad I bought my 2016 Limited. I would be pissed to the max if I were having problems like some of these bikes.

HD needs to tweek some more stroke out of the Vrod and slap it in a bagger!

They might do something like that, if forced.  But it would prolly be a NOVA type V4 built from parts and tooling that would share with the 750 Street.  That would give them a 1500cc wet motor.  Easy enough to match current power levels with no stress issues.   

[1FSTRK]

BMW is gaining more appeal....

If nothing else I am sure glad I bought my 2016 Limited. I would be pissed to the max if I were having problems like some of these bikes.

HD needs to tweek some more stroke out of the Vrod and slap it in a bagger!

They might do something like that, if forced.  But it would prolly be a NOVA type V4 built from parts and tooling that would share with the 750 Street.  That would give them a 1500cc wet motor.  Easy enough to match current power levels with no stress issues.   

There were pictures of it posted here on HTT but HD got them removed.

[eddfive]

Ed...so the HD tech guy was down here for the past 2 days checking out my bike. He said they can't find anything wrong with any parts or the installation. He did get it to sump, but he had to ride it at high rpms. For a sustained amount of time. He said that I ride to aggressive and that I needed to change my riding style...The only thing HD is offering is to either put the bike back together as a stg 4 and me not ride so aggressive..or...give me my money back on the stg 4 kit and put it back as stock

Not sure that John will respond but I thought we should share. This Harley tech from the MOCO is now telling us how to ride and that we can not ride a Milwaukee 8 at high RPM or aggressively. He also told John that at sustained high RPM the motor gets too hot causing oil pump issues. I thought the hole reason for the M8 was too run cooler. I am not sure what John plans to do, but I can not believe they are going to tell him or any Harley owner how to ride their bike. This is total BS in my opinion. Sounds like they do not have the answer yet for the sumping issue.

I am hoping the aftermarket(Feuling) gets their pump and cam plate released to eliminate this problem.

My take on all this is Harley is clueless on the oil pump/camplate issue. This guy form Harley was sent down to basically do nothing and tell John he is out of luck.

[Coyote]

Unbelievable.   

[Ohio HD]

I've been following this, as I'm sure many are. I'm astounded that they take this attitude towards a problem they can't deny. I guess all I can say is, I'm in NO rush to pick up an M8.

[harley_cruiser]

Wow, it's your fault that it's sumping, unbelievable.

[crewchief25H]

Heard today the 62400178 pumps after 10/10/17 are machined different. Have a friend that works at a HD dealer, he had one in his hand today. Guess this make the 4th generation oil pump for oil cooled.

[happyman]

Ed...so the HD tech guy was down here for the past 2 days checking out my bike. He said they can't find anything wrong with any parts or the installation. He did get it to sump, but he had to ride it at high rpms. For a sustained amount of time. He said that I ride to aggressive and that I needed to change my riding style...The only thing HD is offering is to either put the bike back together as a stg 4 and me not ride so aggressive..or...give me my money back on the stg 4 kit and put it back as stock

Not sure that John will respond but I thought we should share. This Harley tech from the MOCO is now telling us how to ride and that we can not ride a Milwaukee 8 at high RPM or aggressively. He also told John that at sustained high RPM the motor gets too hot causing oil pump issues. I thought the hole reason for the M8 was too run cooler. I am not sure what John plans to do, but I can not believe they are going to tell him or any Harley owner how to ride their bike. This is total BS in my opinion. Sounds like they do not have the answer yet for the sumping issue.

I am hoping the aftermarket(Feuling) gets their pump and cam plate released to eliminate this problem.

My take on all this is Harley is clueless on the oil pump/camplate issue. This guy form Harley was sent down to basically do nothing and tell John he is out of luck.

Holy batchit, was riding my 117, 17   CVO today. was 52* and wind.  oil temp was at 218 and my motor was sumping like a big dog got  real hot exhaust temps on the right foot and leg , and would not run for chit.  pulled it off the road into a gas station  and oil was right at a quarter inch below the add mark.  now I checked it before
I left which I always do an doil has just been changed and it is at three dots down  on stone cold motor so we know there is lot more to the sumping issue than obviously anyone cares to admit even if they have no clue what it is that is soooooooo wrong  I have to think even the dang breathing of these motors is not doing what it needs  lot of  overrun on last there motors and other top ends replaced all the same ole bs   just the same song and dance. its the latest, and  greatest, and should work. well should and would are two different deals.  have had it to the teeth with this mess, that is ongoing despite what is being done so far.  to tjhink  the advertising on these kits states it for performance everywhere  and some for low or topend and mid, so the advertising is a failry tale and they got the  $$$ and now want to break it off in ya .   and we thought  AMNF was a clown show? 

[Ohio HD]

Wow, this is really a bad deal, getting worse. I know that all of them can't be effected, can't be. But they don't know why some are no doubt.

[PoorUB]

I wonder how some people that really can not afford a new M8 and borrow a bunch of money, then end up with a sumper. I know I buy a new ride every few years and it is a extreme major purchase for me. If I had a $28,000 motorcycle I couldn't ride I would be a bit pissed to say the least. I would probably use up my vacation time to camp out in front of the dealer with my ride and a nasty "HD sold me a lemon" sign. It wouldn't be pretty.

A lot of this is why I am getting a bit worn out on HD. They built the first Twin Cam in '99, then spent the next 7 or so years getting them straightened out, cam bearings, tensioners. I am pretty happy with my 2016 after I did the exhaust and tune. Now the bike runs like it should from the factory. I think I will give them five more years before I buy a M8!

[happyman]

I wonder how some people that really can not afford a new M8 and borrow a bunch of money, then end up with a sumper. I know I buy a new ride every few years and it is a extreme major purchase for me. If I had a $28,000 motorcycle I couldn't ride I would be a bit pissed to say the least. I would probably use up my vacation time to camp out in front of the dealer with my ride and a nasty "HD sold me a lemon" sign. It wouldn't be pretty.

A lot of this is why I am getting a bit worn out on HD. They built the first Twin Cam in '99, then spent the next 7 or so years getting them straightened out, cam bearings, tensioners. I am pretty happy with my 2016 after I did the exhaust and tune. Now the bike runs like it should from the factory. I think I will give them five more years before I buy a M8!

the CVO  17 model is or was just close to 40 grand now they are plus 40 grand and it does hurt to write the check.  then you miss half the  season because of failures it tends to make you unhappy to put it mildly.
 

[Jim Bronson]

Yikes! My buds and I met up at the local dealer this morning for a pre-ride chat. The SM is a really nice guy, and his crew installed a Tire Shredder in my '15 RK a while back, and it runs great with lots of power, especially after a Dyno tune. He was hinting that I may want to buy an M8 for more power, and I didn't want to say anything because my riding buddy/good friend was there. He bought a '17 RK and is having pretty good luck with it so far with about 10K on it. Sometime when I get the SM alone, I will mention the sumping problem and see what he has to say.

[harleytuner]

I would probably use up my vacation time to camp out in front of the dealer with my ride and a nasty "HD sold me a lemon" sign. It wouldn't be pretty.

A guy I used to work with bought a real high end horse trailer, the kind with living quarters in it, for his wife. He had nothing but problems with that thing.  The manufacturer (Cherokee trailers) wouldn't work with him.  He ended up renting a lot at the Ohio State Fair right across from the Cherokee display, he parked his trailer there and put up a banner down the whole side of it that said "Cherokee trailers are junk, ask me why" and spent the week showing people all the problems he had.

[Thermodyne]

Ed...so the HD tech guy was down here for the past 2 days checking out my bike. He said they can't find anything wrong with any parts or the installation. He did get it to sump, but he had to ride it at high rpms. For a sustained amount of time. He said that I ride to aggressive and that I needed to change my riding style...The only thing HD is offering is to either put the bike back together as a stg 4 and me not ride so aggressive..or...give me my money back on the stg 4 kit and put it back as stock

Not sure that John will respond but I thought we should share. This Harley tech from the MOCO is now telling us how to ride and that we can not ride a Milwaukee 8 at high RPM or aggressively. He also told John that at sustained high RPM the motor gets too hot causing oil pump issues. I thought the hole reason for the M8 was too run cooler. I am not sure what John plans to do, but I can not believe they are going to tell him or any Harley owner how to ride their bike. This is total BS in my opinion. Sounds like they do not have the answer yet for the sumping issue.

I am hoping the aftermarket(Feuling) gets their pump and cam plate released to eliminate this problem.

My take on all this is Harley is clueless on the oil pump/camplate issue. This guy form Harley was sent down to basically do nothing and tell John he is out of luck.

I think the MoCo knows what the issue is.  They were hoping to correct it as cheaply as possible.  And it would appear that has not panned out for them. 

I would get a lawyer and let them put what they told you in writing.  Then demand my money back. 

If they fix this issue with a more extensive redesign, the early M8 scooters will be worth less than the Twinkies they replaced. 

[JB2017CVO]

OK all...here is the final word from Harley Davidson....They had their guy come down here to Texas from Wisconsin to tear my bike down and check everything...The word I got from him personally was that all the parts were working just fine and that the installation itself was done correctly...He could only get it to sump when he rode it at high rpms for a sustained amount of time. What that consists of I have no idea...I can make it sump within a mile or so at high rpms...Anyways, he said that since they had put the new oil pumps in, I am the only one that has had the issue continue, so it must be me...I ride to aggressive for their liking. The bike was not designed to run at high rpms for a sustained period of time...once again...whatever that means....What Harley has agreed to do is refund me the price and labor costs of a stage 4 kit and I get to keep the kit...At this point my only hope is that FUELING or someone else comes out with an oil pump and cam plate that fixes the problem...

[happyman]

OK all...here is the final word from Harley Davidson....They had their guy come down here to Texas from Wisconsin to tear my bike down and check everything...The word I got from him personally was that all the parts were working just fine and that the installation itself was done correctly...He could only get it to sump when he rode it at high rpms for a sustained amount of time. What that consists of I have no idea...I can make it sump within a mile or so at high rpms...Anyways, he said that since they had put the new oil pumps in, I am the only one that has had the issue continue, so it must be me...I ride to aggressive for their liking. The bike was not designed to run at high rpms for a sustained period of time...once again...whatever that means....What Harley has agreed to do is refund me the price and labor costs of a stage 4 kit and I get to keep the kit...At this point my only hope is that FUELING or someone else comes out with an oil pump and cam plate that fixes the problem...

the m8 motors will sump with the cruise set at 70 mph.  I know because its happed on several occasions on three  different motors. after all this  plus a complete top, end with plate and pump.   rockers and supports  shafts and  more.it will fool you  to be honest.   now toss in two broken cam bolts on top of all the previous mentioned  and bent pushrod and lifters junk you get a bit sick and tired.  today  was riding what is one of the last rides this season the way it looks here.    pulled into a gas station fueled up  fired it up and took off into the heavy traffic which is 45 limit and going slow because of traffic that time of day  eased into it  shifted a couple times traffic started rolling a little faster hit third and gave it a little throttle  it  did not respond so gave it more gas and it  was very slow to get going and shifted again at prolly just short of 4 grand its was a  dog that could not run  for whatever reason.  its amazing as it happens  a few times a day and yes if you ride it like its intended to be ridded with the stage  4 advertised how great it is  to run at the front of the pack which means not much to me at my age  its a freaking joke.  I ride a lone and have for many years  no racing  or burnouts.  will spool it in high gear often passing and it cannot handle that , and for the most part the rpm is nothing that ever should shut a motor down not ever     all I want now is all the  $$$ I have invested . when they resolve the issues I will then get a new one if its a sure bet it can be ridden like advertised . and yes its advertised  to  be much more that what I have experienced,   as is with many  there is a lot of homework that needs to be done, gave away over half of the riding season because of failures. and headed back again. yes  the parts get replaced,  and motors  but its getting old  with no resolve to date.  hope they get this figured out begore next summer ad it would be fun to actually take a trip and feel like you can get back.    its  been a hell of a nightmare   have to say we can get the parts to replace but you loose most of a season because of back orders and  waiting for a tech to show up/  nothing good about any of this  BS.
 

[Hossamania]

Get that conclusion in writing. Make 100 copies. Make sure the owner of the dealership gets one. Make sure Harley corporate gets one. Ask the owner of the dealership if you can give one to every customer that walks in. If not, why not? Make sure every dealer in the area gets one. Post it on Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, and whatever other venue that seems right.
If it is an acceptable conclusion, Harley should have no problem with that information being shared with the world.

[Hossamania]

And sell that bike.

[IronButt70]

This whole fiasco leaves me speechless. I'm so glad I bought a 17 heritage instead of waiting for the 18. 

[N-gin]

Get that conclusion in writing. Make 100 copies. Make sure the owner of the dealership gets one. Make sure Harley corporate gets one. Ask the owner of the dealership if you can give one to every customer that walks in. If not, why not? Make sure every dealer in the area gets one. Post it on Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, and whatever other venue that seems right.
If it is an acceptable conclusion, Harley should have no problem with that information being shared with the world.