Author Topic: Let's talk about travel limiters  (Read 1647 times)

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Offline wfolarry

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Let's talk about travel limiters
« on: January 13, 2019, 10:17:15 AM »
One of the most asked questions I get is 'when are travel limiters needed?'.
The simple answer is every time you put lifters in. So let's clear up some common misconceptions.

Travel limiters are race only. FALSE!!! Travel limiters do not effect the hydraulic operation of the lifter. When the motor is running the lifter is doing the same thing whether it has limiters or not.

They Make them solid lifters. FALSE!!! Like I said they have no effect on the normal hydraulic function of the lifter.

What travel limiters do is guarantee the valves open every time. Whether it's a hot start, first start or any other start it does it easier because the valves are opening like they should. Once it's running they operate like a normal hydraulic lifter.

Now before I get all the comments on how they're not needed [I'm NOT telling everybody to put them in their bike] think about how many times you thought they might have helped. When you hear a bike start on the first revolution instead of spinning a few times or maybe kicking back on you remember it's the little things that make a difference. IMO travel limiters are one of those things. consider them the next time you're replacing lifters.

Online HighLiner

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 12:43:33 PM »
How does the adjustment procedure differ?

Offline FSG

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 01:11:20 PM »
Larry   .....   :up:   well said

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 01:14:16 PM »
Mine make no more noise than if they weren't in there. Has to help the upper RPM's to maintain more consistency with valve timing. Starting benefits are well worth it alone.
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Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 01:25:25 PM »
How does the adjustment procedure differ?

To adjust with the limiters:
Tighten pushrods until they make contact with the limiter. Back off the adjuster until the pushrod spins freely. Lock it down.

New lifters-the oil that's in them will bleed out fast. If you're installing them in lifters that are full of oil you will have to wait for the oil to bleed out same as you would on stock. When the pushrod is adjusted like this it puts the plunger in almost the same position as it would if you adjusted them without limiters.

Offline kd

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 03:20:34 PM »
 :up:  ... and for the old guys, not really any differently than you used to adjust the old Sifton or S&S solids in the old slabside.  :wink:
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 03:21:42 PM »
:up:  ... and for the old guys, not really any differently than you used to adjust the old Sifton or S&S solids in the old slabside.  :wink:

Or alternator Shovel.     :smile: 
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Offline kd

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 03:31:50 PM »
OK Brian, I should have mentioned them too but I meant ooooold guys.   :embarrassed: 

One thing I do think is worth mentioning is cylinder growth. Up to temp barrels will grow up to approximately .060" longer and subsequently increase the distance from plunger contact.  That will allow a little more plunger room to help feed oil up top. IMO there is no downside to running the limiters that are generally available.
KD

Offline DresserDan

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 11:18:24 AM »
Does any one know if the S&S 113 has limiters from S&S? I have one and I get some kick back.

Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 02:02:31 PM »
Does any one know if the S&S 113 has limiters from S&S? I have one and I get some kick back.

Not in a crate motor.

Offline DresserDan

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 02:51:43 PM »
Would you recommend replacing the lifters or just put the limiters in? Motor only has about 8,000 mi

Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2019, 02:52:05 AM »
Just put the limiters in. Cheap & easy.
The limiters I sell only fit Hylift Johnson lifters. You'll need to get yours from S&S.

Offline masstch

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 08:45:02 AM »
OK, Devil's advocate says: what's the downside? Is there an argument that could be "legitimately" be made *against* their use (other than cost)?
Rhetorical questions, who still does those?

Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 10:33:16 AM »
There is no downside. The only problem is people that donít know better saying there is.

Offline masstch

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 11:53:43 AM »
OK, if there's no down, only up.... why aren't they in universal (or widespread) use?
Why did my S&S lifters not include them?
That's NOT me being smartassed, it's a serious question.
Maybe they are a relatively new thing or its just about added cost to the mfg?
Rhetorical questions, who still does those?

Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2019, 03:04:42 AM »
S&S has had them for years.
Lifters are manufactured by the thousands on the same line that makes them for automobiles. They're not going to be installed by the manufacturer. They actually frowned on them. I've been working on changing their opinion. They're starting to come around.  :wink:

Offline Mopower

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2019, 03:35:24 PM »
Some shops advocate running lifters without limiters but recommend adjusting the push rod down until the lifter is fully collapsed, then adjusting the push rod in 1 turn. Is there any downside to this adjustment procedure? Thanks in advance.

Offline FSG

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2019, 09:56:58 PM »
Some shops advocate running lifters without limiters but recommend adjusting the push rod down until the lifter is fully collapsed, then adjusting the push rod in 1 turn. Is there any downside to this adjustment procedure? Thanks in advance.

sure is, don't do it 

Offline aswracing

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 04:19:31 AM »
Mine make no more noise than if they weren't in there.

That's been my experience, too.

Has to help the upper RPM's to maintain more consistency with valve timing.

Here's where I'm going to differ with you. My Buell XBRR turns 9000rpm (factory rev limit) on it's stock hydraulic lifters, which are the same as what came in all the XLs since 2000 and Twin Cams since 1999, literally the same part numbers. That's 9000rpm with 2.250" intake valves (albeit Ti) and 270lbs on the seat, and 150hp to the back wheel on 82ci. We regularly turn our shop mule 2007 Sportster 8000rpm on stock lifters. No issues with valvetrain control, when using conicals at 180lbs on the seat and 2.020 x 7mm intakes and 130+hp to the back wheel. Pump up only happens when you get slack in the valvetrain. Keep good control of the valvetrain and it's not an issue. Lobe profile is a factor.

Starting benefits are well worth it alone.

To me, this is the one place where you can make an argument for them.

But we view adjustable pushrods as a step backwards, particularly in the XL application. You're putting in a pushrod that's heavier for a given strength, and introduces two new potential points of failure, between the adjuster and the collapsible covers. Plus the whole setup costs more. To solve a problem that you don't have because a hydraulic lifter self-adjusts anyway. Give me a strong one piece chrome moly pushrod with Mae West ends any day of the week. Simpler, stronger, and more reliable.

So from my point of view, you're introducing more noise into the valvetrain, and spending money on an adjustable setup, for a little help in starting, which you can accomplish with ACR's or MCR's or Easy-Starts anyway. I guess I don't see the point.

There, that ought to get a few people riled  :wink:

Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2019, 02:15:58 PM »
At least it's honest.  :up:

Offline crazytown4

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2019, 02:24:54 PM »
Larry, I have an '03 RKC with stock cams. I'm changing the cam chain tensioners (again) and want to change out the lifters while I'm in there.  I already have S&S adjustable p/r, so no issues there.

You have convinced me to get lifters with limiters. I was looking on your site, and it looks like the 2313L would be appropriate for me. I couldn't see them in your shop though. Maybe you aren't making the standards with limiters?

Thanks for your great expertise. You help keep amateurs like myself from screwing things up too much.

Offline wfolarry

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2019, 03:17:29 PM »
Order the 2313's & the travel limiters & I'll install them for you.

Offline crazytown4

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Re: Let's talk about travel limiters
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2019, 03:55:19 PM »
Order the 2313's & the travel limiters & I'll install them for you.

Will do, thank you sir!