Author Topic: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check  (Read 734 times)

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Offline Chopper75

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1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« on: April 10, 2019, 08:17:46 AM »
Hey fellas, new to the forum and to this 1980 FXEF and wanted to get your advice before finishing the wiring job. Little info on the bike:

- 6 Post Ignition Switch
- Ultima Electronic Ignition
- Electric Start Only
- No Signal Lights
- No Dash Lights Except Speedo Light

This is what I came up with for my bare bones wiring. Let me know what ya think.

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Offline billbuilds

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 04:29:03 PM »
    Are you going to be able to get an inspection sticker with no turn signals and no brake light switch on the handlebar?  Other than those things it looks like it will work fine to me. Bill

Offline Chopper75

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 04:34:59 PM »
Thanks Bill. I live in Jersey so there is no inspection...yet...

Offline Harpo

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2019, 10:15:43 AM »
Chopper - I'd also hook your regulator to the battery through a circuit breaker, and not direct as your schematic shows.  The reason I say that is in the past I've had a regulator internally short and start on fire (the potting material burns), and it kept burning until the wire from the battery burned through.  There were a few anxious moments as I was flinging dirt on it to try to put it out. 

I run a bus bar right off the battery positive terminal to a 30A breaker and from there to the regulator.  Your other hookups (starter solenoid, etc.) can still come off the positive terminal direct as you show.

Offline cheech

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 07:03:31 PM »
Chopper - I'd also hook your regulator to the battery through a circuit breaker, and not direct as your schematic shows.  The reason I say that is in the past I've had a regulator internally short and start on fire (the potting material burns), and it kept burning until the wire from the battery burned through.  There were a few anxious moments as I was flinging dirt on it to try to put it out. 

I run a bus bar right off the battery positive terminal to a 30A breaker and from there to the regulator.  Your other hookups (starter solenoid, etc.) can still come off the positive terminal direct as you show.
Yeah as he said, run the regulator to the load side of the 30A breaker, same post that goes to the Ignition switch. That's how they  are factory also FWIW.

Offline billbuilds

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 04:49:47 AM »
Chopper - I'd also hook your regulator to the battery through a circuit breaker, and not direct as your schematic shows.  The reason I say that is in the past I've had a regulator internally short and start on fire (the potting material burns), and it kept burning until the wire from the battery burned through.  There were a few anxious moments as I was flinging dirt on it to try to put it out. 

I run a bus bar right off the battery positive terminal to a 30A breaker and from there to the regulator.  Your other hookups (starter solenoid, etc.) can still come off the positive terminal direct as you show.
Yeah as he said, run the regulator to the load side of the 30A breaker, same post that goes to the Ignition switch. That's how they  are factory also FWIW.

     Don't mean to argue with you but I'm looking at the factory wiring schematic for 1980-1984 FXB/FXS/FXEF/FXSB (OEM#99482-84) and that lead from the voltage regulator goes straight to the positive side of the battery, not thru the 30amp breaker. The only wire I see going to the load side of the 30amp breaker is the red wire that goes to the "B" terminal on the ignition switch.

Offline Burnout

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 08:14:38 AM »
I have never understood why the alternator feed wire is not fused.

I cannot think of any reason it should not go to the load side of the 30A breaker.

If there is a good one, I would like to hear it.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 11:00:05 AM »
Fuses are used to protect wiring. The alternator feed is, by design, current limited. The battery not so much which is why a fuse is used there.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline Burnout

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 01:21:08 PM »
Please substitute the word protected for fuse in my post.
Shovelheads had no fuses.

If the alternator feed happens to get pinched or chafe to the frame there's gonna be smoke.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline cheech

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 03:13:35 PM »
Chopper - I'd also hook your regulator to the battery through a circuit breaker, and not direct as your schematic shows.  The reason I say that is in the past I've had a regulator internally short and start on fire (the potting material burns), and it kept burning until the wire from the battery burned through.  There were a few anxious moments as I was flinging dirt on it to try to put it out. 

I run a bus bar right off the battery positive terminal to a 30A breaker and from there to the regulator.  Your other hookups (starter solenoid, etc.) can still come off the positive terminal direct as you show.
Yeah as he said, run the regulator to the load side of the 30A breaker, same post that goes to the Ignition switch. That's how they  are factory also FWIW.

     Don't mean to argue with you but I'm looking at the factory wiring schematic for 1980-1984 FXB/FXS/FXEF/FXSB (OEM#99482-84) and that lead from the voltage regulator goes straight to the positive side of the battery, not thru the 30amp breaker. The only wire I see going to the load side of the 30amp breaker is the red wire that goes to the "B" terminal on the ignition switch.
All good. I should of clarified, I wasn't referring to that year bike specifically. My statement is in regards to most late model stuff. Even down in 90's. Don't know when it started. Suppose one could search. Here is wiring from 91 Softail. It's on load side of breaker.
So since he's starting from scratch, might as well add that protection in there for reasons as others have mentioned.

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 05:37:03 PM »
Fuse or breaker, the purpose is the same.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline 76shuvlinoff

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2019, 03:00:01 AM »
At some point I was told the wire to the regulator was designed to melt if shorted. I took it as a myth then but I suppose most wiring would melt if shorted long enough.  :wink:
Being defenseless does not make you more safe.

Offline crock

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2019, 05:27:42 AM »
In the early years Ford used what they called "Fuseable links" which was a short length of wire a gauge or to smaller with about twice as thick insulation on it. They were found hidden through the car at different locations usually at terminal blocks. Pain in the backside
Crock

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 05:57:40 AM »
At some point I was told the wire to the regulator was designed to melt if shorted. I took it as a myth then but I suppose most wiring would melt if shorted long enough.  :wink:

Think about it. The older charging systems used a shunt regulator. So any power the charging system was capable of generating that was not being used by the bike was shunted to ground. The stators are by design (magnet and windings) only capable of generating a certain number of amps. And their wiring has to be able to handle that since it operates at 100% load all the time.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline Dan89flstc

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2019, 07:48:26 AM »
Well, there are two 15a breakers, but some circuits have no protection (speedo, ign, headlamp).

All components should get their power from a circuit breaker.

Typically the only unprotected wires are between the ignition switch and the breakers, so put the breakers close to the switch to keep those wires as short as possible.

Also, since you asked...Pin 30 on a 5 pin relay is usually drawn as the input side, 87 and 87A are output. HD seems to bounce back and forth on this.

 

 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 08:02:52 AM by Dan89flstc »
1989 FLSTC
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Offline Chopper75

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2019, 05:52:03 PM »
Thanks for all the replies! Decided to run the regulator wire to the 30amp that powers the ignition to stay on the safe side.

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2019, 06:42:33 PM »
Pretty sure if you do that and if your fuse/breaker were to blow/trip with the bike running, you will be running unfiltered alternator voltage to the bike electronics. I doubt that's very good on stuff. It may be another reason HD doesn't do it. Just a thought.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline Chopper75

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2019, 06:44:57 PM »
That's a great point. My Ironhead is wired straight to the battery and i haven't had any problems. Think I'll go straight to the battery now that you pointed that out.

Offline cheech

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2019, 08:19:05 PM »
Pretty sure if you do that and if your fuse/breaker were to blow/trip with the bike running, you will be running unfiltered alternator voltage to the bike electronics. I doubt that's very good on stuff. It may be another reason HD doesn't do it. Just a thought.
Harley does indeed run it to the load side of the 30A breaker. The Softail diagram I posted points that out. Earlier years didn't. Am I reading it wrong? So how is it "filtered" in that situation?
And I just looked up my electronically laden 2015 Ultra Limited diagram, same way. So what happens if the 50A fuse blows while riding?

« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 08:29:52 PM by cheech »

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 11:31:17 AM »
Why bring up your twin cam here. Kinda apples and oranges as the whole system is different.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline Burnout

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 11:38:35 AM »
The principal is right though, and that portion of the system is very similar except for the substitution of fuses.

I would not worry about the alternator feed causing any permanent issues with the electrics on a Shovel.

Many ignitions will shut down or obviously misfire with a bad alternator or missing/open battery.
I've never seen any permanent damage from this.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2019, 12:05:34 PM »
The principal is right though, and that portion of the system is very similar except for the substitution of fuses.


No it's not. One uses a single phase alternator and the other uses a 3 phase alternator. One uses a shunt regulator and the other a series regulator.

The generator wave form produced by the single phase system, without a battery present, will be much more hostile to electronics than the 3 phase one.  (much more ripple and much higher peak voltages)
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline cheech

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2019, 04:32:55 PM »
Why bring up your twin cam here. Kinda apples and oranges as the whole system is different.
All for the sake of discussion as either way his bike is going to function OK.
I only brought it and the Softail up in regards to your statement here.
Quote
It may be another reason HD doesn't do it

It may be another reason HD didn't do it 40 years ago. Fixed with the bold.

The later Twin cam example notwithstanding, as far as I know all the 90's bikes had single phase stators as does my early twin cam and shunt regulators. The regulator output lead is at the load post of breaker. Not directly to battery.
So the later bikes had electronic speedos, some fuel injected, way more sensitive stuff than his shovel.
Which is another reason why his unfiltered voltage situation is of no importance on his shovel as there really is no sensitive electronics aside from his Ultima ignition. Which surely  does have some  kind of spike protection.

So to the OP, it's debatable as to which way it could be wired and what one chooses. To each their own. Coyote doesn't want your ignition spiked in the rare event the 30A breaker opens up while riding.
I and a few that have chimed in like to see the output lead from the regulator protected by the 30A breaker in the rare event the regulator shorts out or the lead gets shorted. Even though it wasn't done on that bike originally but IS currently on HD bikes.  A restomod if you will. I'm not going to go through all the wiring diagrams from the 90's but the Softail diagram proves it was in place even back then, with single phase Alt.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 07:37:11 PM by cheech »

Offline Coyote

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2019, 05:15:13 PM »
I'm still trying to figure out what you are trying to "protect" by moving to the other size of the breaker. The single phase stator operates at 100% current generating capacity at ALL times. It can not generate more power regardless of the load on the bike's electrical system. A fuse for it just is not needed.

I do agree with you that under normal operation, it probably doesn't matter.

Originally, I was just commenting to point out why HD may have done it this way.
I feel the need... for twisties with speed.

Offline cheech

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Re: 1980 FXEF Wiring Diagram Check
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2019, 08:10:21 PM »
Chopper - I'd also hook your regulator to the battery through a circuit breaker, and not direct as your schematic shows.  The reason I say that is in the past I've had a regulator internally short and start on fire (the potting material burns), and it kept burning until the wire from the battery burned through.  There were a few anxious moments as I was flinging dirt on it to try to put it out. 

I'm still trying to figure out what you are trying to "protect" by moving to the other size of the breaker. The single phase stator operates at 100% current generating capacity at ALL times. It can not generate more power regardless of the load on the bike's electrical system. A fuse for it just is not needed.

Once you said that, I see where it's muddled.  They aren't trying to protect the regulator. No need to for reasons as you describe.
The whole purpose of having it wired on the load side is to just protect the wiring coming from the regulator. As in Harpos case that he posted and I quoted above.
And another example, lets say his regulator output wire melts on his exhaust way down by the regulator, shorts. Well that 10 or 12 gauge wire, whatever it happens to be, is now getting red hot melting everything next to it, drawing everything the battery can provide even with the bike off until the battery gives out (a decent amount of time) or the wire finally melts through, maybe even the battery melts, maybe even cause a fire to burn the bike down in the process.

Well why not "protect" that lead by putting a circuit breaker or fuse in between the regulator and battery? And guess what. That wire never has a chance to get red hot does it?
Matter of fact you said it in Post 7
Quote
Fuses are used to protect wiring. The alternator feed is, by design, current limited. The battery not so much which is why a fuse is used there.
So I do believe we're on the same page.
And FWIW I keep saying load side because those breakers have a copper stud which is battery and a silver which is load. So I don't even know if they will trip as designed wired incorrectly.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:15:53 PM by cheech »