o2 conversion question

[flhtci2006]

Thanks for the pictures and instructions.  Guess I need to hunt down some wire.  At least I have a week or two untill the other parts come from Zonotti.

Not to sound stupid but wanting to clarify to myself why I'm doing this, can nc, Herko, Steve C or Ram tell me what I should expect to get by converting my 06 to closed loop?

[Ram]

Thanks for the pictures and instructions.  Guess I need to hunt down some wire.  At least I have a week or two untill the other parts come from Zonotti.

Have found mine on e-bay if your looking for mil-std Teflon, you may luck out and find H-D wiring colors.  

Not to sound stupid but wanting to clarify to myself why I'm doing this, can nc, Herko, Steve C or Ram tell me what I should expect to get by converting my 06 to closed loop?

With luck, lots of fun tuning, ability to improve performance for mod's you have made or will make, and have some control over engine exhaust heat and some ability to change overall mileage.

And most of all the ability to run closed loop! If done everything right!

[Don D]

More specifically the ability to do data runs using TTS mastertune to cover nearly the whole map, most throttle and speed areas, and correcting the VEs yourself. Then after that you can set the AFRs where you want and have a reasonable tune. Of course a dyno would get that last bit of WOT and timing tweaking that can smooth things out a little more and potentially add some mileage plus get the best number at WOT.
The manual is online, take a look.
http://www.mastertune.net/files/Tuning%20Files/Manuals/MasterTune_Tuning_Guide.pdf

[FLTRI]

More specifically the ability to do data runs using TTS mastertune to cover nearly the whole map, most throttle and speed areas, and correcting the VEs yourself. Then after that you can set the AFRs where you want and have a reasonable tune. Of course a dyno would get that last bit of WOT and timing tweaking that can smooth things out a little more and potentially add some mileage plus get the best number at WOT.
The manual is online, take a look.
http://www.mastertune.net/files/Tuning%20Files/Manuals/MasterTune_Tuning_Guide.pdf

[flhtci2006]

I picked up some wire that should work fine.  I'll have to read back through the thread but I went with 20ga.  It's pvc jacket, tinned copper stranded wire.  I wasn't concerned about color but went with black, yellow and white.
Pipes are having bungs welded tomorrow.

Thanks for the info on the reason to do this.

[flhtci2006]

Ram,
Where did you tap into the common at?  Or, about how far from the ecu?

[Ram]

I chose in the back shell of the ECM connector about 1 inch from socket contact 26. It saved tearing out the wiring from the bundle further up the line or across the backbone and made sure that I was on the exact wire off of 26. I soldered in a small contact point of the two leads, (not cutting the original wire going to 26) to make it easy to heat shrink it and tape it over.

Please note: "CAUTION" If you have a high wattage solder iron vice low wattage (typically 35 watts) solder pencil, or if your solder skills are less then what they should be, go back farther away from the ECM connector so you do not melt it at all. Or extract the contact from the connector before soldering. Heat transfers down the wire very fast, you can totally destroy the connector in a flash! 

Didn't have to ring it out later to be sure that its the right one out of a bundle. Could access it quickly in the future. Its reasonably protected inside the plastic of the back shell. It had to be opened anyway to push in the other two leads, why mess up the wiring harness in two places to close back up. It also keeps the wire lengths from each sensor as close in length as possible for each contact lead to the sensor, if that is going to make a difference.  I thought it could since its such a low voltage devise.

You can get it any place you wish this was simplest for me.

[Herko]

The 36 pin ECU connector is one of the more user friendly connectors once you see how it works.
You can easily remove pin 26 (the BK/W sensor ground) to make connection work a bit easier, then reinstall.

I like soldering too (and know how to solder) but purposely connected the two sensor ground wires to the BK/W with properly sized "M" knifes removed from Scotchlock type connectors. Tested first to ensure these knives did not damage the stranding of the OE wire (using a piece of an old harness) but still made a good connection.

Did each (front and rear) sensor wire in two places within a 3 to 4 inch span along the BK/W. (4 "M" knifes total, two per sensor wire). Then wrapped with quality tape. Looks good, works good.

[flhtci2006]

I too can solder and have low wattage and high wattage irons.  However, having seen some really interesting soldering, I totally get your point!!!  However, I was thinking (should say it crossed my mind) of using a butt connector then heat shrink over it and about 2 inches of the wire on each end.

I hadn't looked at the sockets when I bought them but started the project last night and when I did, realized I had the proper crimpers at home to crimp them.  I did the ecm end, twisted the pair and ran them in some 1/8" heat shrink.  I opened the wire tray on the backbone and will feed the harness into it Monday.  I'll leave excess wire on the O2 sensor end for final connection/socket installation when the parts come in (which is the same time I'll do the wiring into the Packard connector and common wire.)

Got the engine all buttoned up (went 98").  Got the pipes back last night with the O2 bungs installed.  Should be ready to fire it up using the PCIII Tuesday or Wednesday.  The following week I'll swap over to the TTS.

Anyone interested in doing this and wants to crimp the wires properly, I'll loan you my crimpers you just take care of shipping.

Thanks guys for you support/help on this.  I'm sure I'll be in another thread on how to do the tuning (I have downloaded the mastertune manual and printed it which I read while I fish because I don't have to work the rod....fishing rod.....  The lake doesn't have fish in it, I swear.

[mike 120]

Does anyone know if HD has a part number for the harness connecting the O2 to the ECM ? That would be helpful to guys like me who don't have the know how.
Mike

[cts1950]

Does anyone know if HD has a part number for the harness connecting the O2 to the ECM ? That would be helpful to guys like me who don't have the know how.
Mike

Mike this is part of the main harnes on a 07 bike. You have to do it your self on a older bike.

[mike 120]

Ok thanks, getting my info together and waiting to hear if the VIN block on 04's has been resolved, mine is an 04 with replacement 05 ecm.
Mike

[nc-renegade]

I got an 06 Delphi ECU from a friend and installed it on my bike.  Same problem with the rear o2, it just does not fire off.  I am thinking it is a problem with the V&H Propipe BP 2to1 exhaust.  I did remove the plug from the baffle, perhaps it is drawing enough air in to keep the o2 sensor from heating up enough to fire off???

[Herko]

I got an 06 Delphi ECU from a friend and installed it on my bike.  Same problem with the rear o2, it just does not fire off.  I am thinking it is a problem with the V&H Propipe BP 2to1 exhaust.  I did remove the plug from the baffle, perhaps it is drawing enough air in to keep the o2 sensor from heating up enough to fire off???

Couple of questions:
What voltage are you seeing from the rear sensor?
What RPM are you using when observing sensor light off?
If at idle and AFR is a bit rich to boot, sometimes enough heat may not be generated to give sensor sufficient heat.
Try bumping up the RPM and hold steady and observe.

Maybe for the '10 models they'll remedy this with heated sensors...hmmm. 
Who knows, maybe our bungs wont have to be as large in the near future either...like some other mfgs already have.

[nc-renegade]

I got an 06 Delphi ECU from a friend and installed it on my bike.  Same problem with the rear o2, it just does not fire off.  I am thinking it is a problem with the V&H Propipe BP 2to1 exhaust.  I did remove the plug from the baffle, perhaps it is drawing enough air in to keep the o2 sensor from heating up enough to fire off???

Couple of questions:
What voltage are you seeing from the rear sensor?
What RPM are you using when observing sensor light off?
If at idle and AFR is a bit rich to boot, sometimes enough heat may not be generated to give sensor sufficient heat.
Try bumping up the RPM and hold steady and observe.

Maybe for the '10 models they'll remedy this with heated sensors...hmmm.  
Who knows, maybe our bungs wont have to be as large in the near future either...like some other mfgs already have.

When I was observing the O2 data, the front lit off at idle RPM, but the rear never got below 4000mV.  I ran the RPM up to 3000 and held it.

Stange thing is the Vtune recording says the AFR is good.  Perhaps it is throwing out the rear and simply using the front sensor?  I plan to record the bike while running (not Vtune recording) so I can observe the O2 sensors.

[FLTRI]

When I was observing the O2 data, the front lit off at idle RPM, but the rear never got below 4000mV.

FWIW, the stock "Y" pipe with low/no restrictive muffs can not work properly with closed loop EFI due to excessive reversion from the left side pipe which does not occur with stock (restrictive) muffs.
Bob

[nc-renegade]

When I was observing the O2 data, the front lit off at idle RPM, but the rear never got below 4000mV.

FWIW, the stock "Y" pipe with low/no restrictive muffs can not work properly with closed loop EFI due to excessive reversion from the left side pipe which does not occur with stock (restrictive) muffs.
Bob

Hi Bob, it's a 2to1 system and not a stock "y" pipe.  I am thinking about putting on the 07" Softail SE stock exhaust I have laying around to see if I get readings.  It just kills performance though.

[ToBeFrank]

Have you verified the rear isn't running too rich?

[FLTRI]

Hi Bob, it's a 2to1 system and not a stock "y" pipe.

Not sure why the rear cylinder O2 functionality would be any different than the front unless it is a rare 2into1 that somehow promotes rear cylinder reversion.
Other than that, the only logical explanation would be a defective sensor or improper sensor location and it is not getting proper exhaust flow across it. You might try swapping front to rear and see if that makes a change in reading.
HTH,
Bob

[nc-renegade]

Have you verified the rear isn't running too rich?

No, I have not done that. Without a dyno, might be hard to do.

[nc-renegade]

Hi Bob, it's a 2to1 system and not a stock "y" pipe.

Not sure why the rear cylinder O2 functionality would be any different than the front unless it is a rare 2into1 that somehow promotes rear cylinder reversion.
Other than that, the only logical explanation would be a defective sensor or improper sensor location and it is not getting proper exhaust flow across it. You might try swapping front to rear and see if that makes a change in reading.
HTH,
Bob

I went through all that with the original 05 ECU before it took a dump.  Swapped sensors, ohm'd out connectors, etc.  I did drill out the baffle plug to get a dyno sniffer through it, don't know if that effected the rear.

I've done 4 Vtunes and the bike is running really well.  I am getting ready to make a data run to log the o2 sensors.  That should tell me if they fire off once the bike gets going.

[ToBeFrank]

Have you verified the rear isn't running too rich?

No, I have not done that. Without a dyno, might be hard to do.

Decrease the VEs for the rear 10% or so and see if the sensor responds.

[nc-renegade]

Have you verified the rear isn't running too rich?

No, I have not done that. Without a dyno, might be hard to do.

Decrease the VEs for the rear 10% or so and see if the sensor responds.

Good idea!  I also thought about taking it out of close loop, put it all at the same AFR and put my widebands back in. (Use the data serial bus so the AFR is displayed on my speedometer.)

I can't wait to try your software to tune in the timing.

[nc-renegade]

I did a datarun lastnight and both front and rear o2 are working properly in range.  I believe ToBeFrank hit on the head about the rear running real rich at first.  The Vtune sessions tuned it in, though there is a significate difference between Front and Rear VE table; up to 30%, don't know if that is normal?

Edit: I reviewed the SampleData for Generic O2 and it shows the same percentages that I am getting.

[VDeuce]

I did a datarun lastnight and both front and rear o2 are working properly in range.  I believe ToBeFrank hit on the head about the rear running real rich at first.  The Vtune sessions tuned it in, though there is a significate difference between Front and Rear VE table; up to 30%, don't know if that is normal?

Edit: I reviewed the SampleData for Generic O2 and it shows the same percentages that I am getting.

I had the same issue with rear being 20% more than front when using a certain map. In my case, the NI176 map produced these results. When I switched to NL176 or PC176, these major differences disappeared and became much closer together.

What base map are you using?