Inner Primary Bearing Failures on '07's and up?

[kdietz]

I friend of mine has had inner primary bearing failures on his '07 Ultra and again on his '09 Ultra....is this a widespread problem?....is there a fix?

[CTB]

Same on my 08 FLHR - next will be the mainshaft bearing in around 5k if it works out anything like my situation. Salesperson at my dealer says he's heard of this happening quite a bit.

[iclick]

My tranny mainshaft bearing started whining at 16k and it wasn't until 32k as the noise increased that anyone suspected a bearing problem.  The dealer and I blamed either the belt or rear tire for over a year, but in the end they agreed that a recon into the tranny and primary was necessary.  The plastic wall of the double-ball bearing had come apart and one roller had dislodged, but hadn't disintegrated yet and was only making noise.  No unusual metal fragments had been noted on the drain plug magnets which is why nobody considered a bearing to be a likely suspect.  This is not an isolated case and my dealer said he had seen several, and I've seen some reports on forums from others who've had this problem.  I wonder if it'll go out again, as there doesn't seem to be any change in the bearing or part number.

[Scramjet]

Yes, 2007 FLHX, I had the inner primary bearing go at about 24,000 miles.  Before that it was the clutch basket bearing.  Before that it was the whole clutch basket under warranty when the starter ring gear had the teeth stripped off.

B

[2glides]

OK, so after bringing  my bike back to the dealer twice for this "noise" that sounded like belt / tire noise, and them not finding anything, I took the bike back and changed the tires to rule that out. Noise still present. I took it back and showed them this post and what others were finding on this issue. I have the ESP, and they started with " the moco dosen't give us money to diagnose" crap. I told him that my friend with the same warranty goes to a different dealer and they always find a way to get it covered under the warranty. So, they decide to look at it again. After two weeks with my bike, I called to find out they hadn't looked at it yet. When they finnally did, they pulled the inner primary and the bearing had (4) broken rollers and the inner race was destroyed. They replaced the bearing under the ESP and I go away happy that we found something and as of the ride hpome on the highway, no more noise. ( actually the primary was quieter than I ever remember) BTW This is on a 2007 ultra w/ 46k on it which I have owned since new. so I take the bike home park it and go about my business. I go out to the garage that evening and there is a puddle under the bike. Primary fluid. Sunday morning I clean the underside of the motor and go outr and ride it for 200+ miles. By 150mi the noise is back and it still leaks like a pig. It looks like the alternator plug. I thought for sure that the bearing was the noise! They claim that they "looked" at the mainshaft bearing and that it was "fine". What do you guys think? Obviuosly, I'll bring it back to get the leak fixed, but should I make them keep looking for hte noise? Run it till something fails? I really don;t like to do that because it usually can mess other things up when you run things to failure. Any experience or advice would be welcome.....especially from some of hte techs that work at dealers.

[HDDOC]

If you have the extended warrinty you can bring it to just about indy or dealer. find a new place that will find it for you.  Doc

[DblackmanC]

Karl (and others) Here is what I have found! All the newer Primary cases are made different now. They have a oiling hole for the inner primary bearing. I have found them to be blocked by the snap ring from the factory and I have also found dealers that don't about this and are installing them wrong again?? See pics below...#992 is the inner erase and the damage it will cause. #999 is the damaged inner bearing and you can see the oiling hole at the top. Now #020 shows one with the snap ring blocking the oil hole outlet. You can see the black and burnt oil because no flow or lubricating or cooling going on. The snap ring should be positioned so the oil hole is not blocked and can flow in the back side and flow through the bearing. I have enlarged the entry of the hole to catch more oil and made the hole a little larger....more oil the better??
Any way...Have never had one come back!


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[jsachs1]

Help me understand something.
How can oil NOT get to the bearing from behind the clutch assy?(major oil supply in the primary).It does on all the earlier inner primaries without the hole.
John

[Norton Commando]

My '90 EVO doesn't have an "oil hole" for the primary bearing and it seems to last forever - 60,000 plus miles anyway. Something other than an obstructed oil hole seems to be causing the bearing failures on these late model Twin Cams?

[DblackmanC]

Man, I don't know? How about a guess! Didn't the older style have the chain on the back and now the newer ones have the much larger starter gear on the rear? Maybe that blocks the oil and now they need that hole to get oil back there? Now there is no chain to sling oil up there?
Just showing what I found...
Dan

[itsafatboy]

there is one at the local indy here and it was trashed he said new bearing is smaller and has less rollers, ?? why the change $$ sounds like part of the 10000 mile service will be to replace bearing man that sucks

[Scotty]

Check the 2009 service manual and it states to make sure that the cirlcip is in the correct position.

6. See Figure 5-19. Retaining ring (1) must be oriented as
shown to prevent blocking of oil passage (2). Install
retaining ring to lock position of bearing in bore.Verify that
the ring is fully seated in the groove and is in proper orientation.

[Reddog74usa]

Great post. Thanks for the info

[Ridetard]

" the moco dosen't give us money to diagnose" crap.
LOL

How true.

[2glides]

A huge thank you to all that have replied so far. This is great information. I intend to print it out and go to the dealer today and present it to them and ask the question about the installation of hte bearing. I still welcome any other information that others could provide either by direct knowledge or by your own experiences with this issue.  This site is the BEST!!
Thank you again,
2glides

[DblackmanC]

2g....another test you might do to confirm if the noise is from the inner primary bearing is as follows...

If riding and you hear this noise when you gear down and come to a stop with bike in 1st gear and clutch lever pulled in, is noise gone? Then noise could be inner primary bearing because that bearing can not spin in this position. Now shift into neutral without moving anything and let out clutch lever. Now does the noise come back (roaring) when the clutch lever is let out? If yes then it most likely is the  inner primary bearing as releasing the lever in neutral will allow the shaft to spin inside the bearing. Good luck!
Dan

[kdietz]

Thanks Dan....I'll pass on the info

[hognuts1960]

My 09 Ultra started making a whirring noise that wasn't there before for the first 40k miles. Replace the easy stuff first. Ft and rear wheel bearings. It got worse 3 hours from home in east Texas. Lucky I made it back home. It turned out to be the transmission final driveshaft bearing. I had a full days hard work to change this out as the primary inner and outer come off and the trans gearset has to be pulled out (case in bike). There was a huge groove worn into the bearing race. $300 worth of parts and my hard labor.
Seems this bearing should be good for longer than 40k.
I have the 103 kit on the bike since 3k miles and PCV/autotune with woods cam and hooker pipes. But bearings of years past could handle almost anything you gave them. What happened to German or American made bearings?

[Mooose]

I am in the process of rebuilding my transmission because of what I believe is the root of what many of you are experiencing.

In the 07-10 primary, we have the automatic chain tensioner that is supposed to make life easier and maintenance costs lower, however it is entirely too aggressive and keeps the primary chain overly tight. When ever there is slack, it takes it up and never gives it back. After this, when you roll on heavy torque, especially for those of us who've increased torque (or when starting a higher compression engine), the overly tight chain serves to pull the drive-shaft and the transmission main-shaft together.

This binds the bearing, most commonly the inner primary main shaft and the tranny main shaft bearings, but can also affect the drive-shaft bearing, any of the bearings within the transmission and even the drive and main shafts themselves.

When I pulled my clutch basket I found that the teeth which the starter pinion gear engages on the clutch basket had been scoring an arc on the forward side of the case, between the two shafts.

In the 2011 Touring models, began installing the Screamin' Eagle compensators to, I believe, help with this issue.

I'll be rebuilding the tranny (myself, HD service techs can bite me), replacing the stock compensator with the SE version, upgrading my clutch and trying out a different auto-tensioner from Hayden Enterprises. If the Hayden model sucks, I'll go with Baker's Attitude Adjuster which is an old-school manual adjuster.

For the record, my bike is not stock and I am aware that I created and am now rectifying an unbalanced system. It does not excuse HD's obvious corner cutting, but, you get what you pay for.

Wish me luck, I've never rebuilt a transmission.

[Templar2]

Moose, I have not had a failure yet, just a race that walked and was doing it again, we have now intalled the Baker bearing in hopes of solving that issue.  I have also ordered the M6 and will be putting that in next week, used it on previous bikes and never had any issues with the setup.  I agree, seems that HD should have RDed this "Potty mouth" out a long time ago, it seems they start down the right path and then lose their way.  Oh well, good luck on the tranny build.

[PoorUB]

I had ~40,000 miles on my 2010 and the stator fried. I pulled it apart and found the mainshaft bearing race was failing so I replaced the race and bearing. Something has changed in the last few years, but I don't know what for sure, auto primary chain tensioner perhaps?

[1Canuck]

Had a rubbing/grinding  at each revolution in the primary in neutral which went away or was less heard in gear. Tech said more than primary bearing, probably in the tranny. Today they have it apart and will be replacing all bearings in there. So the HD tech was right and extended is covering the bill, for $56 deductible

[wavlovr1]

My 09 Ultra started making a whirring noise that wasn't there before for the first 40k miles. Replace the easy stuff first. Ft and rear wheel bearings. It got worse 3 hours from home in east Texas. Lucky I made it back home. It turned out to be the transmission final driveshaft bearing. I had a full days hard work to change this out as the primary inner and outer come off and the trans gearset has to be pulled out (case in bike). There was a huge groove worn into the bearing race. $300 worth of parts and my hard labor.
Seems this bearing should be good for longer than 40k.
I have the 103 kit on the bike since 3k miles and PCV/autotune with woods cam and hooker pipes. But bearings of years past could handle almost anything you gave them. What happened to German or American made bearings?

My 2009 SG was upgraded to a stage II 103 before delivery (so I could get a seven year add-on warrenty) At a little over 20K the bike sounded like a smoothie blender with a bearing that had been immersed in dish water about 300 times. Repairs involved new SE compensator and all the bearings including all those in the transmission, along with one gear.... I'll keep beating the hell out of it until the warrenty ends, then I might be tempted to trade it in.... Maybe HD will build a decent drive system by then, LOL...

jb

[mariner227]

2g....another test you might do to confirm if the noise is from the inner primary bearing is as follows...

If riding and you hear this noise when you gear down and come to a stop with bike in 1st gear and clutch lever pulled in, is noise gone? Then noise could be inner primary bearing because that bearing can not spin in this position. Now shift into neutral without moving anything and let out clutch lever. Now does the noise come back (roaring) when the clutch lever is let out? If yes then it most likely is the  inner primary bearing as releasing the lever in neutral will allow the shaft to spin inside the bearing. Good luck!
Dan

+ 1. This is how I diagnosed mine. The inner primary bearing failed at 12k miles on my 2010 ultra. My dealer did not have the bearing or race in stock. I called a bigger dealer that was close and they had five sets in stock.

The fact that they had five sets ( bearing and race ) indicates that this is not an uncommon problem.

[threadkiller]

Just an observation for those rebuilding their transmissions. I can't speak from personal experience w/ factory cruise drives however as we all are aware H-D is big into "tradition" or more appropriately these days...."Penny wise, pound foolish". The early 5 speed MDG case bearing had metal ball bearing separator, which then was "upgraded" to bearings w/plastic separators. More than a few years ago I redid a '93 FLHT trans, and when I pulled the big seal out of the case I couldn't figure out why all the ball bearings were grouped together at the bottom of the races. It then dawned on me that I hadn't lost any "balls" but the plastic bearing separator went "away". FWIW  if possible I always upgrade any ball bearing I install to ones using  metal separators. FFT (food for thought) TK.