Cam Case Dowel Pin Removal

[lilchief]

Can anyone tell me what the easiest way is to remove the two cam case dowel pins? Gonna go with the stud method. ( I'm not referring to you Max, I know you're busy )
On another note, I was chatting with one of the parts guys at the local dealership last night and he told me that he completely removed the locating dowels on his bike and just takes his time & lines the plate up & doesn;t use studs or dowels. Said several of the guys that work there have done the same thing. Says he's never had a problem with it. Anyone here ever ran their bike that way? Seems kinda risky to me.

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

[Coff 06]

I personally would keep them,the bolts aren't machined for a perfect fit.On the other hand it might be just fine,the oil passages might be that forgiving.By far I'm no expert on the matter.
When I used to build motors I always like to keep them,keeps the heads from moving around.
       Coff 06

[Ohio HD]

I think that without the dowel pins, you risk screwing up the oil pump and cam bearings, cam alignment, etc. They're there for a reason, right?

[truck]

Keep the dowel rings. A little misalignment can cause a lot of trouble. They wouldn't be there if they weren't needed.

[lilchief]

Well here's what happened in my saga. Awhile back the threads pulled out on the rear dowel, and then most recently on the front dowel. Had to helicoil both of them. Since then, I've been having an internal leak problem. After some very, very careful inspection with no beer involved, I've found that the helicoil on the rear dowel must've pushed the dowel too far out of the case, and it was holding the dowel pin too far out, which in turn looks like it warped the cam plate. I can't get the dowel in any further, and both seem to be a little larger in diameter now from the drill bit from the helicoils. I might have to resort to grinding the rear one down about .040" or so. The front one protrudes about .0110" from the edge of the case, and the rear is about .0153". The recessed area in the cam plate measure about .0155" deep. Figure that when it's torqued down, that's where my problem lies. I've noticed that the cam plate fits rather snug over the rear dowel, and slides right on to the front one. Any suggestions? Otherwise I'll tape everything off really good & grind that rear dowel pin down. I didn't think running it without the dowels or studs sounded like a good idea.

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

[prodrag1320]

no way would i run it without dowls,or use studs unless you use shouldered,machined studs and everythings done on either CNC or digital equipment.defanatly a recipe for major problems!!

[02FYRFTR]

I would remove the dowel and replace it with a shorter length dowel.  The dowels are important for locating the cam plate.  The easiest way to remove them is to use a suitable tap and and a socket with a nut threaded on the tap as a forcing agent.  I would also use studs in the two dowel positions along with 12 point nuts.  I aleways install dowels with every cam installation.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Snap-on tool.
Those datum/locating dowels are there for a reason.
Scott

[Harleytwostar]

I'm sure I'm talking out my backside but I thought the "stud" method INCLUDED the locating dowels.......you just inserted the stud through the dowel and then used the 12pts vice bolts............

r/ George

[les]

Use vice grips, very carefully so not to scratch the surface.  They will crush so you'll have to get a new pair.

I know it's too late for you, but the best method, in my opinion, is just to use studs the very first time you take it apart.  You don't need to remove dowels or anything and there has never been a single posting about someone pulling out the stud setup.  Not a single one!

I can tell you there has been numerous postings of pain and agony because people have not used studs the very first time.  The proof is in the numbers...just use the damn studs!

[lilchief]

Thanks Everyone,
FWIW, I had no intentions on running this thing without the studs or dowels, it just didn't seem right when this guy said that. My guess is that they were in a hurry when they stripped their threads and slapped it back together, because I asked this same parts guy if they had the dowels in stock. He said no, they would have to be ordered. He knew that for a reason I would say. Gonna try and locate some studs or dowels today, but right now it doesn't look like any of the major auto parts stores have the studs. They are a 1/4-20 / 1/4-28 x 1 1/2" right?

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

[02FYRFTR]

Thanks Everyone,
FWIW, I had no intentions on running this thing without the studs or dowels, it just didn't seem right when this guy said that. My guess is that they were in a hurry when they stripped their threads and slapped it back together, because I asked this same parts guy if they had the dowels in stock. He said no, they would have to be ordered. He knew that for a reason I would say. Gonna try and locate some studs or dowels today, but right now it doesn't look like any of the major auto parts stores have the studs. They are a 1/4-20 / 1/4-28 x 1 1/2" right?

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

Stud size is correct they are technically called fan studs made by Dorman Products Part #675-086, the 12 pimt nuts are made by ARP Fasteners #300-8330.  Both items are available at Sunnit racing or you might try your local real ACE Hardware or  Google the part number and the nut description and you will find source.

[Admiral Akbar]

FWIW, The easy way to pull them is to find a tapered punch that can wedge in the top then take a pair of vice grips and grab the sides of the dowel at the punch. Twist the sucker out.. You damage the dowel but they are cheap.. I keep both cylinder and cam dowels around just in case..

Max

[les]

Thanks Everyone,
FWIW, I had no intentions on running this thing without the studs or dowels, it just didn't seem right when this guy said that. My guess is that they were in a hurry when they stripped their threads and slapped it back together, because I asked this same parts guy if they had the dowels in stock. He said no, they would have to be ordered. He knew that for a reason I would say. Gonna try and locate some studs or dowels today, but right now it doesn't look like any of the major auto parts stores have the studs. They are a 1/4-20 / 1/4-28 x 1 1/2" right?

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

I get the studs at True Value hardware.  The 12-nuts are a bit harder to find.  I get the nuts from Summit Racing.

[FSG]

[Admiral Akbar]

Why not one stop shop at Summit??

[attach=1]

and you get 10 for that price.. 

Max

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[FSG]

 

[Ohio HD]

Because Rock Auto is even cheaper!   

Buy 10 or more and they're $0.66 each.

[attach=0]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[FSG]

I need to resupply perhaps I need to PM someone.   

[Ohio HD]

I need to resupply perhaps I need to PM someone.   

Anytime FSG, just holler!   

[Admiral Akbar]

Because Rock Auto is even cheaper!   

Buy 10 or more and they're $0.66 each.

[attach=0]

Yeah but they don't carry ARP..

Max

[lilchief]

I located the dowels at a local fastener place. They didn't have the nuts though.

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

[Ohio HD]

Because Rock Auto is even cheaper!   

Buy 10 or more and they're $0.66 each.

[attach=0]

Yeah but they don't carry ARP..

Max

Are you sure you're not looking for AARP?           

[Admiral Akbar]

I located the dowels at a local fastener place. They didn't have the nuts though.

Thanks,
Lil' Chief

Don't you mean studs? 

Max

[lilchief]

Yes, I located the studs not the dowels. Sorry!
It's still early.

Lil' Chief