Does TTS lock out HD's Digital Tech

[HV]

The bleed should work like Keith says...diff processor ....the radio is put in to diagnostics more when ever the ECM reflash is started...if it can communicate with the radio with out attempting to change anything in the ECM it may work...but at least we will find out for sure one way or another... 

[Coyote]

Also can you assign a new key fob or marry a hfsm or tssm with an mt8 loaded
Ill check that, too.

Thanks Robin. Will be good to finally know.

[wolf_59]

Also can you assign a new key fob or marry a hfsm or tssm with an mt8 loaded
Ill check that, too.

Thanks Robin. Will be good to finally know.

here is a thread that discusses the DT and ABS with TTS but it was diagnosing a problem http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,50787.msg538052.html#msg538052

[hrdtail78]

TTS has been locking the ECM since 09.  Its 2013 and we are just finding what this locked ECM problem really is?  Shows me.  It might not be the problem guys have made it out to be.  Always look at this site as having some of the most resources.

I do know you can use the TS bleed brake function with a TTS locked ECM.

Any flash tuner you have.  Not caring what it is.  If a dealer wipes your custom cal.  You will need that cal and VCI to put your custom cal back into the ECM.  Hopefully you do have your VCI, and not just a key.  All the problems are still there.

[hrdtail78]

When they ride in all happy and the bike is sounding good.  They lost their fob,  or want a brake change and the person running the DT will say the ECM is bad is so much BS.  THAT is just dumb.

But....  I DO agree TTS should handle this differently.

They lost thier fob?  No problem.  They read the warning label when they bought the bike and went through the owners manual.  Read how to override security right?  The person that sold them the bike went over that detail.  Right?

[hrdtail78]

A bigger issue is what happens with a used bike some poor sole buys and has no idea its been zapped with a TTS ? there should be a warning label provided to stick on the ECM... " Warning TTS Tuned for issues contact the Manufacture " and a PH# for Whomever is working on it ....so they can at least get info on what to do ..........Not all Techs either Dealer or Indy read HTT

Another warning label to ignore?  When I sold my 06.  I sold the bike, MTE, and a copy of the tune.  I explianed to the guy about his ECM and he wasn't getting the VCI for the price he wanted the bike for.  If he ever wanted into his ECM he would need to buy a TTS.  He understood, and had the option for me to reload his MTE.  Or for another $300.  He could of had the VCI.  He chose to leave it alone.  30,000 miles later.  Not one problem.  I do my best to be forthing coming and honest with my customers.  Repeat customers keep these doors open, and the bills paid.  Why did I want my VCI?  To make it a dual and program my new bike with it.  It's cheaper than buying a new TTS for my new bike.

[wurk_truk]

I, myself, think you guys have comeup with something that I am going to use.   Some sort of sticker near the ECM that says Buckeye Tuning has custom tuned this bike and please, before hooking up the DT to call ....

I feel that I WILL like tuning with the DL, AND PV, which BOTH takes keys.  Also, my main deal is TTS and this can possibly stop some issues.

Thanks Robin for coming in on here.  I feel the ECM is NOT locked out of things like some figure.  Getting a definitive answer from you, will answer this once and for all.

Ummmmm....  I have NO agenda in this.  No hate, etc.  All I wish to do is find the TRUTH of some things and move forward accordingly.  I know DL cannot talk to the ECM with an MT8.  But??  How about Centurion?  With ABS bleed and the ability for Fobs, that would be my equivalent to a DT.

Between taking care of Kathi, and work.  I really am limited in giving any time to playing around.  But...  dammit, I wish to do so.

Mayor.  Here is where I am at on that.  In the early part of last decade, I wrote, using a standard PLC language, a few programs for door controls for various manufactures' car wash machines.  I was OEM, for one, and the rest...  I was a low cost alternative.  Most of those eventually realized the niche I had staked out.  That's fine once they offered their own version of low cost.

How about the one MFG, that took my program and started to sell it themselves.  THAT is what pisses me off on this.  Steve sets his base cals up a certain way.  So do all of the majors in this area.  What pisses ME off is not offering base cals they developed themselves, nor base cals, like Fullsac, etc., for their own products.  What pisses me OFF is a distributor making base cals pulling TTS cals, and then offering them as his own, and SAYING they are his own.  So, let's end that part because it doesn't further the OP and the directions this thread has moved into, OK.

Let's concentrate on dispelling some myths, using Robin.  I am sure we can all agree he will be fair and report the truth, right?

[wurk_truk]

When they ride in all happy and the bike is sounding good.  They lost their fob,  or want a brake change and the person running the DT will say the ECM is bad is so much BS.  THAT is just dumb.

But....  I DO agree TTS should handle this differently.

They lost thier fob?  No problem.  They read the warning label when they bought the bike and went through the owners manual.  Read how to override security right?  The person that sold them the bike went over that detail.  Right?

I was being sarcastic.  If a tech at a dealer is too dumb to realize a bike was running perfect, how can they think it is toast?  Enough to take the bike out of service?  THAT is what is too dumb to me.  I have met some really good techs at dealers across the country, but feel that is NOT the norm at all.  What you and I think as common sense, is NOT being used at all times.

[mayor]

I, myself, think you guys have comeup with something that I am going to use.   Some sort of sticker near the ECM that says Buckeye Tuning has custom tuned this bike and please, before hooking up the DT to call ....

I feel that I WILL like tuning with the DL, AND PV, which BOTH takes keys.  Also, my main deal is TTS and this can possibly stop some issues.

I think a sticker of some sort is a good idea.  I think we as a group tried to talk Steve into a sticker a while back, as insurance but that never went anywhere.  I think one from the tuning shop is a good idea, since that would also work as advertising. 

Thanks Robin for coming in on here.  I feel the ECM is NOT locked out of things like some figure.  Getting a definitive answer from you, will answer this once and for all.

Ummmmm....  I have NO agenda in this.  No hate, etc.  All I wish to do is find the TRUTH of some things and move forward accordingly.  I know DL cannot talk to the ECM with an MT8.  But??  How about Centurion?  With ABS bleed and the ability for Fobs, that would be my equivalent to a DT.

Let's concentrate on dispelling some myths, using Robin.  I am sure we can all agree he will be fair and report the truth, right?

I am the same way.  I have no agenda what so ever either.  I just want to know how this would affect me personally with my new bike.  I like the TTS system, but the locking of the ecm is a real concern for me.
 
If Robin comes back that there are no issues, then I'll drop the subject and move on.   

[ToBeFrank]

The test I think is more relevant is to run some of the DT diagnostic tools. I think most of them require unlocking the ECM (again, security-wise, not TTS lock). Clearing AFV definitely does. I'd think it's very likely a tech will run one of those and if it doesn't work, will think the ECM is bad.

Make sure you test this, also. Steve said they changed the security key. If that's the case, this stuff will break. I suspect Steve didn't mean they actually changed the security key, just "effectively" changed the key by modifying the process. So the diagnostic features should still work.

[rigidthumper]

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Acr enable / disable.   No
Eitms    No
Cruise Enable.      No
Abs  bleed procedure.  Yes
Hfsm customization. Yes
Pin yes
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.
Reflash radio.  Yes (took 2 tries)
ABS reflash.   Yes
This is on a 2010 FLTRX w/old style VCI and DTW009-003 base map.
HTH
Robin

[Coyote]

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Acr enable / disable.   No
Eitms    No
Cruise Enable.      No
Abs  bleed procedure.  Yes
Hfsm customization. Yes
Pin yes
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.
Reflash radio.  Yes (took 2 tries)
ABS reflash.   Yes
This is on a 2010 FLTRX w/old style VCI and DTW009-003 base map.
HTH
Robin

Thanks Robin

[HV]

Thanks Robin ..that at least clears up some rumours .....

[mayor]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

[rigidthumper]

Seems that way to me

[rigidthumper]

And  FWIW, I reflashed the MTE into the bike, all functions worked normal.

[FLTRI]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

Are you good to go with TTS now?
Gotta be really careful who you listen to because ulterior motives and personality conflicts.
Some live to get around copy protection schemes ...and get pissed when they are derailed. There is always new pirating challenges.
Bob

[strokerjlk]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.
It can't unlock the ECM .
Same thing I have seen.

[ToBeFrank]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

What am I missing? It looks to me like the following indicate that the diagnostic tools in the DT will indeed fail, probably causing the tech using them to think your ECM is bad. I'm 100% sure the AFV reset does not require a reprogram. It only needs the security key to unlock the ECM. The diagnostic tools also only require the security key.

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.

[FLTRI]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

What am I missing? It looks to me like the following indicate that the diagnostic tools in the DT will indeed fail, probably causing the tech using them to think your ECM is bad. I'm 100% sure the AFV reset does not require a reprogram. It only needs the security key to unlock the ECM. The diagnostic tools also only require the security key.

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.

Yes, you are missing something. Don't want just any tech to fu&k with the tune. They don't need to reset AFV.
Module replacement.    Failed?
Why would anyone want a dealer replacing their ECM?...unless of course it failed.
...and the resolve to any TTS issue is no more than a phone call away for dealer personnel.
Bob

[ToBeFrank]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

What am I missing? It looks to me like the following indicate that the diagnostic tools in the DT will indeed fail, probably causing the tech using them to think your ECM is bad. I'm 100% sure the AFV reset does not require a reprogram. It only needs the security key to unlock the ECM. The diagnostic tools also only require the security key.

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.

Yes, you are missing something. Don't want just any tech to fu&k with the tune. They don't need to reset AFV.
Module replacement.    Failed?
Why would anyone want a dealer replacing their ECM?...unless of course it failed.
...and the resolve to any TTS issue is no more than a phone call away for dealer personnel.
Bob

There are diagnostic tools in the DT that help techs diagnose problems. The DT puts the ECM in a special mode so the DT can do the diagnostics. Putting the ECM in diagnostics mode requires unlocking it with the security key. Both of the above failures indicate that TTS did indeed change the security key. This means the diagnostic features of the DT will now fail to work. If a tech runs the tools and they fail to run, what else will he do but assume the ECM is bad? The diagnostic tools should never fail to run on a working ECM.

[rbabos]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

What am I missing? It looks to me like the following indicate that the diagnostic tools in the DT will indeed fail, probably causing the tech using them to think your ECM is bad. I'm 100% sure the AFV reset does not require a reprogram. It only needs the security key to unlock the ECM. The diagnostic tools also only require the security key.

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.

Yes, you are missing something. Don't want just any tech to fu&k with the tune. They don't need to reset AFV.
Module replacement.    Failed?
Why would anyone want a dealer replacing their ECM?...unless of course it failed.
...and the resolve to any TTS issue is no more than a phone call away for dealer personnel.
Bob

Two things wrong with this. First off the dealer tech won't have a clue what's going on and secondly I doubt very much he would call Steve Cole if he did. They work within the scope of their tools and knowledge based on what MoCo set forth. One has to look at it as world wide.
Ron

[strokerjlk]

so if I'm reading what Robin posted correctly, anything not related directly to the ECM was reachable/programable by the digital tech eventhough the bike was programed with an mt8.  Is that right? 

Thanks Robin!

What am I missing? It looks to me like the following indicate that the diagnostic tools in the DT will indeed fail, probably causing the tech using them to think your ECM is bad. I'm 100% sure the AFV reset does not require a reprogram. It only needs the security key to unlock the ECM. The diagnostic tools also only require the security key.

So I drove to the shop this morning, and tried some things. Using the Digital Tech, I tried:
Afv reset. Failed
Module replacement.     Failed. Unable to unlock ECM.

Yes, you are missing something. Don't want just any tech to fu&k with the tune. They don't need to reset AFV.
Module replacement.    Failed?
Why would anyone want a dealer replacing their ECM?...unless of course it failed.
...and the resolve to any TTS issue is no more than a phone call away for dealer personnel.
Bob

Two things wrong with this. First off the dealer tech won't have a clue what's going on and secondly I doubt very much he would call Steve Cole if he did. They work within the scope of their tools and knowledge based on what MoCo set forth. One has to look at it as world wide.
Ron

A lot of the techs think/ call it a  kuryakyn tuner also.

[FLTRI]

I think the key is changed every time a marriage occurs.
Makes it damn near impossible to hack.
I'm sure more protection is coming for the customer and TTS.
But thats just an assumption.
I have no issues as I'm not trying to bust code. 
Bob

[rigidthumper]

OK, I need to clarify something:
Module replacement is typically used for TSM/TSSM  replacement such as what happens when someone chooses to switch from security to no security. (I have to do this for repo companies who don't get the fobs on the bikes they repossess) That didn't work. If you are purposely replacing the ECM, it should be blank ( new ECMs always are) and shouldn't be an issue. 
As far as DT guided diagnostics, they worked like normal to troubleshoot ( I induced faults, and used guided diagnostics via DT).   That function worked fine.
HTH